Foreign registration for insurance

[CarpeDiem 430]

A friend who is purchasing a relatively new 50ft production Cat has been told by his insurance broker that he'll be very unlikely to be able to get insurance for off shore if the vessel is NZ flagged.

Have another friend with a 54ft Halberg Rassy who goes to the Pacific Islands every NZ winter. They registered out of Cook Islands because no one would insure them if it was NZ flagged.

Seems that the reasons for a foreign flag aren't just to avoid Cat 1.

[Black Panther 1,591]

Anÿ explanation? 

[K4309 264]

I could (and probably will) start an entire thread about how complicated and tedious it is getting insurance just for a Gulf Cruiser in NZ. I imagine insurance co issues and regulatory requirements are amplified for offshore boats in NZ.

Related to the other thread on converting to induction cooking, it is looking like I will need to pull out my perfectly functioning LPG system and stove to obtain insurance. Indicated cost for replacement is $4-$5k. But that isn't the complex bit. The insurance co is fully contradicting what the gas fitters are saying - example, insurance says they don't like copper pipe, gas fitter says copper pipe is mandated in 5601.2. So for me to understand what I should do to appease the insurance co is proving complex and frustrating.

Insurance says I don't need a gas certificate to obtain insurance, I just need to demonstrate it is safe. The individual on the phone went silent when I asked how I could demonstrate it's safe when the gas regs outline what is safe, and if it doesn't meet that, how could anyone demonstrate it is safe.

Those are just some examples of a long list of vague and only alluded to requirements for insurance. Failure to comply with any or too many may result in cover being 'discontinued'.

It is getting such an issue that I wouldn't be surprised if some moored yacht owners get together and form some sort of collective. I'm not interested in insurance for protecting the capital value of my boat, it is purely required to access my mooring or any marina.

[Frank 157]

Talk to Kerry at the Marina shop (Insurance broker) 

kerry@themarinashop.com

[CarpeDiem 430]

19 minutes ago, Frank said:

Talk to Kerry at the Marina shop (Insurance broker) 

kerry@themarinashop.com

Thks. Will pass it on. 

[Guest 75]

Second that. Required grid survey, but no gas cert , only a sniffer which I already had. Never got around to the gas solenoidinstall.

Guess it somewhat universal, the differing standards that are applied. Just as long as the survey is what you've got and the Insurance co accepts it you have got 

to be covered.

[K4309 264]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

Second that. Required grid survey, but no gas cert , only a sniffer which I already had. Never got around to the gas solenoidinstall.

Guess it somewhat universal, the differing standards that are applied. Just as long as the survey is what you've got and the Insurance co accepts it you have got 

to be covered.

That is another area of confusion.

One gas certifier states 2 sniffers are required, and they must be interlinked to a solenoid valve on the gas bottle. Another gas certifier states sniffers are not part of the gas system, and are not covered by the standard. I have access to the standard and haven't found any reference to requiring sniffers.

Moreso, there are strict exclusion areas for electrical components around gas bottles and gas lockers. Electrical equipment provide a source of ignition, so exclusion areas are logical. Accept when you are then required to install an electro-mechanical device such as a solenoid valve in the gas locker. Apparently there is a dispensation in the standard to allow said electro-mechanical source of ignition in the gas locker.

Again, one gas certifier states quick disconnect fittings are required on the gas bottle, so that emergency services can remove your gas bottle without a spanner. The standards specifically exclude quick disconnect fittings on boats. Practice has shown they are notoriously unreliable and often leak.

The point I am trying to make is there is a high level of confusion over what I must do to appease the insurance company. On the gas topic, they ask if the boat meets the NZ standards, but wont say what standard they want it to meet. Not even the gas fitters can agree on what the requirements are. They require 'flares to be in date' but haven't provided a reference as to the need to carry flares, how many or what type. Flares are a major danger to use. I know of an instructor who lost his hand setting off a flare. I have a number of other forms of communication that are far safer and more reliable than flares, but it looks like I'll go and buy some to avoid a black mark on the condition assessment form. I've been reliably informed by a couple of different surveyors that too many black marks on your form and the insurer just wont offer insurance. No warning, no explanation of what caused it, just wont offer insurance.

Then, if you try to get new insurance, you need to state that you have been denied insurance previously. Massive can of worms.

Paradoxically, the insurer has not asked for my qualifications or experience, which are extensive. On the risk assessment front, all the boat fires or near misses I know of have been electrical. I know of one gas incident on Waitangi day at Waiheke that required emergency services. That was cause the gas bottle rusted through. You don't need to pay $2,000 for a gas fitter to tell you your gas bottle is rusty.

[Ex Machina 366]

Try the marina shop , 35 year old boat very few questions asked , insured offshore by a UK company ….but we do have EWOF and gas cert plus supplied them with a rig check report and survey  .

They may ask few questions and happily take your payments but I suspect they will thoroughly examine any mishaps and local regs  if you make a major claim .