El Toro 97 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Ive asked him that question many a time.... fell into the lifelines.....no hands styles. I didnt even know it had happened...was flat calm, lazy jibe... no problem I dont mind a bit of gore, but I did have to spit out me chewing gum when I watched him get stitched back up... in fact I wont go into it.. you wont like what I have to say Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 keel boats eh - bloody dangerous things! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 was going to say I saw this movie where they sowed body parts together blah blah then I saw the other photos Oh Farque Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Tom, I hope the guy is ok, looks pretty nasty. why on earth do those things have to be wire? Its just stupid. You could have 5mm Dynex, instead of 4mm wire. It would be heaps stronger, heaps lighter, And no way your gonna mangle your leg in it like that photo. the rules are just dumb! Link to post Share on other sites
El Toro 97 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hes remarkably good...he walked out of hospital and then came and stayed with me. In morning I thought, ok morphine and local will have worn off now he's gunna be sore.... nup, he said it felt ok.. he even tried to drive home, which I talked him out of by threatening to show him the photos. Even today, spoke to him earlier.. hes a bit sore but still able to walk on it with no issues... unreal Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 or maybe he's just your standard hard bastard mono sailor Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 While the international rules say wire we have to stick to wire, When our safety regs. were first formed we made the requirements up from our experience, but within a few years we began entering international regattas, Syney/Hobart, Admirals Cup, Southern Cross Cup, Clipper Cup and Kenwood Cups etc. and found we did not comply and in some cases were over engineered. While we seem to have stopped sending teams to these events, boats are still going to Aussie and the West Coast USA, so YNZ elects to continue to comply. Incidentally I sailed my boat in the first Auckland Fiji race in 1956 and my last in 2005 and that is the first serious accident I heard of caused by wire lifelines. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Thread drift While you are here Fossil, why don't toe rails go past the mast to the back of the boat? I don't get it. Surely if they stop you falling off the front they can also stop you falling off the back, weight no big deal as everyone would have them. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 because bowman are expected to be leaping round the bow throwing sails up and down and just be a hero in general, we need them. the cockpit staff sit there all nice and warm while shouting and expelling gas through orpheus' Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Like the guy went off the back of the boat while trimming in the VOR? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 shouldnt they have life lines across the transom? or did he go under them? Link to post Share on other sites
Crocket 12 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wow. - How easily things can go wrong. I've only been through once, and it was all ver before I realised I'd gone for a skate. Was up front tidying up after a rounding and bag hoist and the bow got slapped by a wave which knocked me off my feet. The only reason I knew I went through the lifelines was the leach of the headsail, which I was firmly holding on to was now going out under the bottom line and back in over the top. And I was soaking wet. Looking at the photos, it's lucky I didn't get a leg either side of the line. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 While the international rules say wire we have to stick to wire, Interesting to note many boats here have decided that's a silly rule and swapped already There is a near purpose built dyneema based lifeline string now. Far superior to the uncovered types like Dynex, Ocean12 or whatever brand name they use. It's smooth and a double braid so will stand up to punishment and stay stronger a lot longer, with a SK78 or 90 heat treated core, the dynex, O12's, Excel and others like that are only 75's. Also having the cooked core mean less of the elongation some boats have seen, mind you a fair whack of those boats looked to have brought on price and don't actually have quite what they think they do, close but knot quite. As one could imagine that freaky often fecked in the noggin 930 owner got a little excited so has some 5 and 4mm on the way. 5 for the top, 4 below. But is also now wondering how to make it look more wire like in case Fossil see's them Was developed for the superboats where wire is fast becoming a nasty yet when Mrs Superboat owner falls in the piss she is way nastier. Link to post Share on other sites
smitty 4 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Going further off topic, I need to replace some of my lifelines & was thinking about using webbing straps where crew hike, do these meet regs? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ive asked him that question many a time.... fell into the lifelines.....no hands styles.I didnt even know it had happened...was flat calm, lazy jibe... no problem I dont mind a bit of gore, but I did have to spit out me chewing gum when I watched him get stitched back up... in fact I wont go into it.. you wont like what I have to say so he just fell into the lifelines and opened his leg to the tib fib- lucky it wasn't above the knee... Did he fall or was it a pace? Link to post Share on other sites
El Toro 97 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Mate I dont really know... first time I even saw him was when we docked.. it was flat calm and a lazy jibe.. there was no noise or anything. The crew round mid mast just started running for medical kits, sleepin bags and the engine saying we needed to get in asap... was so fast we barely checked for lines over the side before takin a dog leg to the wall... Talked to him again this evening... no damage to leg, ligiments...nothing...Doctor is happy and splint came off today....the world moves in mysterious ways... but after seeing it in hospital, watching the stitches... it was as bad as it looks! Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Going further off topic, I need to replace some of my lifelines & was thinking about using webbing straps where crew hike, do these meet regs? The long answer: the safety regs are downloadable from this page of the YNZ site (scroll down about three-quarters of the way to the bottom, don't be fooled by the order form, the link to download them is in the following paragraph: http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/CMSContent ... a4fbd5981e You are looking for section 17.17, Lifelines. The short answer: wire - of specific diameters depending on your length - is the only material I can see mentioned there. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Go down to the boatramp at Okahu Bay, Takapuna or Westhaven. Over 85% of the trailers use a rope on their winches, very few have the Galv wire that was standard many years ago. There are lots of reasons for this. I can't imagine anyone building a new trailer would ever use wire. The safety regulations are Dumb! The rules should be that the Lifelines, and Jacklines should be rated to such and such a strength, and sufficiently protected from UV that they can be relied upon for a decent length of time. The sails you treasure are being worn away where they rub on the wire far faster than if it were rope. The crew leaning on the wire is less comfortable than they would be with rope. An accident like that couldn't happen with rope. The rope is lighter, and there isn't a boat in the world that won't go faster if you take weight out of it from each side like lifelines. The Rope is cheap and easy to splice (relatively). Get your heads out of the sand. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 O Canada had dynex life lines for the fiji race last year. i guess the canadains are more progressive than yachting nz. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The rules should be that the Lifelines, and Jacklines should be rated to such and such a strength, and sufficiently protected from UV that they can be relied upon for a decent length of time. Agree. These days the fibre option is becoming a more 'known' product as it is pretty hard to knot get a good option, assuming you do ask or specify a minimum of 'SK75' or if a Spectra '2000' (both being pretty much the same thing). Bugger all use SK's lower than that where a lot of the SS wire arriving here in brought on price rather than a required grade. Generally NZ has had higher grades like 1770 but these days some is down in the 1300's and a lot is 1420 so knot quite what some think it is. The dyneema cable I mentioned above is a double braid so the cover will stop all UV issues dead on the main load member. But then UV isn't a massive issue with the newer grades anyway, they do stand up a lot better, knot totally but improving. At the moment if you were going to use one of the older ropes like Dynex it would probably pay to go up one size to allow for the UV nibbling. Many of the newer ones have better coatings, construction or have been just made different to allow for less external and bad influences harm. I haven't been a fan of fibre lifelines due to the ropes many are choosing to use but with the newer ones coming on line I'm changing my mind...... so much so I've actually ordered the rope that will become mine. Bar the cost I just see it as a no brainer now. Lighter, stronger, less sail and crew damage possibilities and no or bugger all less warning of impending failure than many/most wire lifelines. I think if the rules did change there would need to be a minimum standard of grade to use. Some of the older/lower ones aren't that crash hot really and I'd be very nervous of them after a year or so in the NZ weather. Same with Jackstays. I had to take off low weight, low annoyance, low tripping hazard minimum 4000kg break load dyneema and replace it with occasionally annoying, bigger tripping hazard all with only 1/2 the load webbing. That just doesn't seem right or particularly smart. Link to post Share on other sites
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