Squaddy Winter R2

[Guest]

Using webbing for the jackstays makes me nervous coz no matter how good the material is, it is sewn with polyester thread that gets eaten by sunlight, weakest link and all that. Lots and lots of cruisers leave them permanently attached.

[B00B00 310]

Dynex lifelines would be fine if all the fittings and stanchions were built for it and the rope was supplied and made up by a professional. Any old lifelines that have had wire through them are quite sharp and the ends at the pulpit and pushpit that have had shackles thru them making a nice metal on metal ‘burr’ which can cut dynex quite quickly. Also I would be concerned about the splices, I could just imagine people doing their own splices and wippings using some info of the internet and making a mess of it, there would really be no way to know if it was done properly or not?

Im sure most people would make sure none of this was an issue but no doubt there would be a few with no idea and that’s where the big problem is.

[Guest]

Go to the latest YNZ amendment Sep 10.

It now allows Dyneema lifelines as long as they are sheathed.

The thinking is that while Professional boats will replace unsheathed lines as soon as they burr up, most owners won't. THerefore the sheathing will stop this.

And yes - I've asked YNZ to incorporate the amendments into the master wording so we don't have to open 4 documents.

 

Tom - Glad to hear things look worse than they are.

[Marshy 30]

http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/Use ... ations.pdf

[Murky 1]

Go to the latest YNZ amendment Sep 10.

It now allows Dyneema lifelines as long as they are sheathed.

The thinking is that while Professional boats will replace unsheathed lines as soon as they burr up, most owners won't. THerefore the sheathing will stop this.

And yes - I've asked YNZ to incorporate the amendments into the master wording so we don't have to open 4 documents.

That's quite a significant change - surprised there hasn't been more discussion and/or boats making the switch. I remember there was mention here of boltcutters no longer being required around that time.

 

Thanks for posting that.

 

KM you may need to order a bit more...

[Guest]

Opps, Doh and what a dick... I knew that or at least I do some of the time

 

Most boats could easily get away with big standard SK75 core with a polyester cover like Finelines Advantage or Donaghys Superbraid. Maybe go Vectran core like Finelines Premier or Donaghys Challenge braids. Be aware though that the break loads will be a tad lower than 4mm SS wire at around 650kg for the ropes (even if both makers report their loads differently they do bust at the same numbers) against 1500kg odd for 1x19 wire.

 

But if you want to Gucci up or up the loads a bit you could run with fancier cover or go with a SK78 or maybe even a SK90 core.

 

The one I have coming for that anal 930 owner twat is a 78 heat treated core with a tight pic 75 overbraid. Heat treated so it's hardish and tight pic meaning the cover is wound on a lot tighter than the usual, all which makes the rope more stiff like wire. 4mm break load approx 1500kg, 5mm @ 2950kg, 6mm @ nearly 4.5t. On a 40fter the 6mm wouldn't be large looking so there is an option to have a hell strong fibre option.

 

So there are a multitude of options really but some are better than others depending on just what you do. If you are just a ditch dweller could get away with a few off the shelf products but if you venture further afield you'd probably want to look at a bit more serious option.

 

This 'SK' thing is basically the differing 'grades' of Dyneema. Dynex is a SK75 just like many/most. The bigger the number the greater the strength and lower the 'creep'. If talking Spectra they use numbers like 900, 1000 etc. A SK75 Dyneema is pretty much the same as a Spectra 2000. Most are using Dyneema at the moment as it's cheaper... even if $100's a kg can be called cheap

 

Note: As noted by Booboo, the terminations will need to be done correctly or you do run the risk of lowering the break loads a lot. Knots will knot cut the mustard.

[Guest Rocket]

I would have thought 650kg breaking strain was way too light - at least for the top line. Not sure how it works but do shock loads come into it?

[Guest]

The 650 was errring a tad amount on the low side. A good rope spliced well would be more 750 odd probably. Strong enough? In most cases I'd think so as you down tend to fall a long way and land plop on the line only, it generally is one of the things you bounce off on the way down/passed.

 

But personally I'd prefer higher as I know I bounce off them a lot being a stumblebum.

 

Also the 'off the shelf' 4mm's would tend to be used more by the smaller end of the fleet I'd expect. The real serious racer dudes would and do tend to up spec gear usually. But that does come at a cost.

 

When talking double braid or overbraided 4mm's the load member core is a lot smaller, more 2.75-3mm with the rest being the polyester cover. So you can increase the load on a 4mm by changing the cover material, something we are experimenting more with today.

 

If anyone does swap over to fibre from wire there is a few considerations that should be thought about with regards to lifespan, strengths, terminations and so on. But is easy doable to swap today and get a pretty damn good safe set-up even if there is some cost in that.

 

Stand by and I'll do a ruff costing on a boat using wire and the same using a couple of fibre options.

[Guest]

Could you do it for 12.5 metre span on each side?

At the moment i'm enjoying the fresh air, but I have to put something up.

I have already had to catch someone trying to bail out of the cockpit.

[Marshy 30]

So does anyone have an answer for the webbing thing? Like the top lifeline down the back where the skipper leans against it? Gotta make the afterguard a bit more cumfy on the mercenary before simrad

[Murky 1]

Beanbags Marshy.

 

I think between the current regs and the posted amendments, we have yet to see the word "webbing" appear as an alternative material for lifelines.

[col j 0]

we clip our harnesses onto jacklines made of webbing. there is an argument. those silly foam surrounds fall appart after not too long.

[wal 27]

You mean the foam floaty/swimmy thingoes?

Put garden hose over the wire inside the foam then cover with acrylic boom cover fabric velcroed on.

 

Your crew will be most appreciative

 

 

.... tho they've probly got a funny way of showing it....

[Marshy 30]

Yeah i got those Blue Marine life line covers, they work really well... But want webbing for the back top lifelines if we are allowed.

[wal 27]

Had webbing on Zap - was a beauty idea for driver and mainsheet. Front lifelines were still tight tho the stanchion did bend quite frequently

[Marshy 30]

Yeah i have a bracing idea to stop that happening, going to seperate the lifelines either way so dont really see what the problem is with it?

[Bogan 8]

My understanding is webbings not liked by the inspectors due to the stitching.

 

If you want to put covers on your wire, and don't want to spend $40 a metre: you can get spiral cable conduit from surplustronics for not much (can be put on the wire while wire is still in place, put those foam swimming noodles over it (or foam pipe insulation) for not much more, and then tape over the lot to hold it together.

[Rhys 0]

Marshy

We have the same system that you’ve described and it didn’t get Cat 3. For a short term solution, we simply added wire between the stanchions to double up with the webbing. Am still trying to get a more cunning solution. Was thinking of placing two pieces of webbing, one over the other and sewing along the top and bottom and then threading some wire down the centre. YNZ seemed to think that it’d be “safe” but sounds a pretty expensive way to keep the webbing, which we love.

[Guest]

Pretty sure the Cool Change has webbing in the aft section. Spose it depends on inspectors.

[Marshy 30]

Might do tube webbing with a Dynex safety threaded through the middle then... Otherwise buy another set of the foam and do the back too... Expensive stuff this comfort aye!