Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 We have a vast array of clues here on Crew so can we answer this question - What sort of a load would you expect a Whale could pull? By that I mean a static load rather than can one tow a big boat. Knot sure what sort or size of Whale but it is a Humpback breeding area so some could be big I would expect. A left field question I know but does anyone have any idea or even a semi-educated guess? It is a serious question by the way, no point waiting for a punch line as you will be disappointed. This is in relation to a very much WTF?? situation I'm helping to sort out. Link to post Share on other sites
khayyam 77 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 good friday afternoon type question! seems like a whale ought to be able to pull several times its own weight. perhaps they don't swim quite so vigorously as smaller swimmers (i.e. snapper), but then those must pull up toward 10 times their weight? so wikipedia says an adult humpback weighs 36,000 kg, so maybe somewhere in the 70,000 to 100,000 kg range? Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Adult Humpbacks can launch themselves out of the water so I'm guessing there's a fair amount of power available to do that. Being able to push 36 tonnes of whale blubber along fast enough to get all or most of it clear of the water would require a lot of horsepower. How much??? who knows???? Don't think anyone has ever harnessed up a whale and tested its ability to pull and I don't think anyone ever would .... certainly not without the likes of Sea Shepherd or Greenpeace getting on your case. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 We have a vast array of clues here on Crew so can we answer this question - What sort of a load would you expect a Whale could pull? By that I mean a static load rather than can one tow a big boat. I was reading this and thought you were talking about a wale jerking off Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Adult Humpbacks can launch themselves out of the water so I'm guessing there's a fair amount of power available to do that. Being able to push 36 tonnes of whale blubber along fast enough to get all or most of it clear of the water would require a lot of horsepower. How much??? who knows???? Don't think anyone has ever harnessed up a whale and tested its ability to pull and I don't think anyone ever would .... certainly not without the likes of Sea Shepherd or Greenpeace getting on your case. C'mon Grinna, you are a scientist, this is classical mechanics, you know the acceleration (negative coz it's slowing down), distance travelled = 1 body length, final velocity at perigee =0, once you have acceleration plug it into F=ma. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 So you're saying that about 360 tonnes is the amount of force a Humpback could exert Squid? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Didn't have a calculator but rounded everything up to easily handled numbers and did it in my head I got 400 tons. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Only they don't launch themselvs clear of the water like a Dolphin. They launch to about there....ummm Arms...what are the side things called??? So they would "force" themselvs out of the water on their Tale rather than leap out due to velocity. I'm still not going to have a tug of war with one though. KM, is this the same one we talked about the other day, or has another done the same??? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Yeap, indeed that one Mr Wheels. What appears to be one getting a bit frisky with moorings up the Islands and causing damage. It's a very weird suggestion one would but the clues are leading towards it being a distinct possibility. Something very weird is happening and buggered if I can figure out just what, it's none of the usual suspects that's for sure. 100's of tonnes = Shite. I never thought about them breaching so yes that would take a bit of horsepower. More than enough to do what has happened but then also more more than enough just to wonder off with the whole bloody thing, inc the weights. Can Whales see colours or do they work in B&W? Just wondering if they see the buoys/floats as a giant jelly bean and think 'get in my belly'. These moorings have bright yellow floats mid water column so I wonder if they have any attraction. 30-50mts of water and they commonly pass thru the mooring field. Hmmm.. it's a strange one for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 OK Some ball park numbers: Assuming humpack whale weighs 36 tonne, girth 40ft(12.2m) and the centre of mass can jump 5m clear of the water. So assuming circular girth that would give ~3m between bottom of whale and water level. Seems about right. Balancing gravitational potential energy at apogee, with kinetic energy of whale in water: mgh=0.5mv^2 v= 9.9m/s or 35.7km/h Seems about right. At constant velocity the forward force from the whale is balanced by the water resistance. Assuming coefficient of drag of 0.2 (streamlined body with projected area as reference area). F=0.5 x water density x velocity^2 x A x Cd Substitute in gives F=116192N or 11.8tonnes. So a lot less than than what's been previously said. About 1/3 body weight Although this is when moving. I'm not sure how things would be when stationary. Typically there would be some optimum speed when force is greatest. Just like there is an optimum cadence to ride a bike at. I wouldn't think that force would be maximum when stationary. Also depends greatly on the actual drag coefficient. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Can Whales see colours or do they work in B&W? Depending on the species, which determines where their eyes are actually situated, many don't see in front oof them. They use sonar. The eyes are supposedly good, but most species have the eyes on the side, rather than being able to see ahead. Their Sonar is far supperior to eyes as they see so much detail for such a long distance. They reckon a Sperm whale can light up an undersea canyon 2miles down with their Sonar. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holy Formula Batman. Knot that I understood that much of your post Chic014, but I did recognise 11.8t. I was thinking 10 to 20 maybe but purely from a knowledge base on Whale weights of next to nothing. At 11t it does put it very much in the area one could cause good damage but knot totally tear one apart, the mainline has a break load in the 14t area. Also there is 5 tonne in weights on the end so maybe one couldn't just pick them up and bugger off without noticing, which would lead to possibly a Whale becoming slightly pissed of it grabbed some food that turned out to be both tasteless and knot wanting to move easily so leading to the Whale doing mooring damage. Hmmmmm.... that does fit the picture nicly. Whether that's what's happening though......... For some reason I find your post bloody funny, knot sure why, especially as lot of it is a little over my head, approx 1000miles over I think maybe all that deep formula stuff interspersed with solid computations like Seems about right. I do like that a lot, nice work. Thanks for the crunching though, more nice work. All I know is Humpback and 'others', Mr Wheels. I wonder if their sonar makes the mid volume floats look like Jelly Fish and we have another 'get in my belly' moment. This is a out of left field thought pattern I'm running with the horny Whale angle but at the moment it's the best lead we seem to have, weird as it may seem. I'm assuming that as it's a breeding area there are kids about and Whale kiddies are playful things like most species of kiddies? I wonder if one or 2 were just out chucking a ball (the mooring buoy/floats) around. Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 No worries. The level is only 1st or 2nd year engineering if that makes you feel better. I'm a big fan of stopping mid calcs and thinking 'Does that seem right?' You'd be surprised how many engineers can do a whole load of calculations to conclude that something holding a boat together should be fractions of a millimeter thick and not realise something's wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 You'd be surprised how many engineers can do a whole load of calculations to conclude that something holding a boat together should be fractions of a millimeter thick and not realise something's wrong. Hell NO!! I deal with design engineers a lot so knot surprised at all and you are quite right Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Ummm, not meaning to throw spanners in works KM, but can a whale actually get into the Mooring area?? Like..aren't most Pacific Island type mooring fields usually well protected by reef all around and just an opening or two big enough for a boat to get through, or is this something different. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Oh yeah, this one is in the Ocean, they have no harbours. The moorings are in 20 and 40mts of water depth just off the shore line which drops deep FAST. Only just beyond the moorings it goes real real deep real real fast. Whales are seen in the field a lot,which would be damn cool as you sit on your boat. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Holy feck Knot Me! Your'e not going into the Whale harpoon tether business are you????? For gawad's sake say it isn't so .....please! Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 More like Rodeo, as in Lasooing, rather than harpooning. We figured it was more environmentally friendly that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Humpbacks aren't likely to try and eat a mooring buoy. They're baleen whales .... which means they eat large amounts of very small critters by sucking in great gobfuls of water and then straining it out between their teeth (only their teeth are like a big bunch of bristles filtering out all the little critters). So, however much a mooring buoy looks like a jellyfish or giant jellybean to a whale (and I'm guessing that'd be in the "not at all" category) a humpback whale is not going to attempt to eat it. Play with it or try to hump it, maybe .... but eat it?? Nah. Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 then again is the 5 tonne weight in steel and could it be cashed in as scrap- that could give the whales a motive- they may be delivering them to Jap fishermen on their way home to Japan, who pay them in fish.... Link to post Share on other sites
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