Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 All this talk about ferro yachts lately has got me thinking. I have a look on trade me and I cant believe how cheep these things are!!! For example: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 775729.htm So my question. Why are these boats so cheap? Is there anything wrong with them.I know they are slower and heaver than wood etc... but but that's not necessarily bad in an ocean cruiser. Makes you want to sell up and go for it if you can get a 60ft yacht this nice for 100k Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I used to think footpaths were the devils spawn only slower. But after playing with one the In-laws had I'm knot quite of that opinion anymore. It was a heavy as bitch but once you had her going she did get along damn well. I think they suffer from too many myths and misunderstandings to a fair degree. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I've a ferro Atkins double ender 32 feet long 10 tons displacement and she's fabulous to sail. No heavier than if she were made of glass or timber. She got hit by a ship!!! true and no damage at all except for the pullpit and a very scared skipper. If well made they are fabulous, easy to maintain. I race my mate , his is a 37 foot Lidguard and there's barely any difference in speed. I'm faster on a broad reach but he's faster downwind as I don't have a spinnaker. I can point just as high but make less leeway. Mine was built by Sayers and its a credit to them. Thin fine hull thats fair and true. Very well ballasted. Nice interior joinery but just a paint finish except for some oak stuff I've put in. With a heavy displacement type there's not any disadvantage with ferro cement if well made. Why so cheap? they have been discredited by an industry that wants to sell fibreglass. I love the price these go for, humble income people can go sailing about the world while those with fibreglass or ali or steel struggle to pay for theirs. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Hi Royale, I spotted that one too and shes a fine looking craft. There are three reasons why they are cheap. Some were built with Cheap in mind right throughout the project. Corners cut everywhere. The truley bad Hulls are pretty much all gone now. But sadly the stigma has not. However, there are still many FC's around that the inside fitout is shockingly poor. Mind you, I have seen many Steel Vessels fitted out the same. The second issue is, there are very few FC experienced Surveyors left now and many so surveyors have no idea what they are looking at or for and comments made are often negative. And a poor survey brings me to the third point. Insurance. And this often becomes the deal breaker. It is almost impossible to get insurance on the things. We were so fortunate to get insurance and so far very fortunate to keep having it renewed. Although we had to go back through all the details this last time and it made a very nervous time for us waiting for the approval. No insurance means you can't go into a Marina, so it can be very important for some to have insurance. As a cruising boat, they are powerful. We struggle in very light air of 8kts and below. But then again, we don't have any light air sails and that would make a big difference. We can keep up with a Lotus 10.6 with 10kts of wind and above, but can't point quite as high and are much slower tacking in those light airs, so eventually the Lotus would amke considerable ground on us. 15kts gives us a good return of speed and 18kts will get us along at 9kts through the water, which is about max for us. 20 to 25kts is a good point to reef and we can often get 9kts through the water with just the headsail alone. The hulls are very strong and we proved that by hitting a Rock reef at 7kts and the only damage was a little cement knocked off the bottom of the keel. The impact was strong enough that a GRP or timber boat would be on the bottom. There are many bad myths and the comments tend to come from people with no real experience. We love our boat. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Sail round the world in a brick? Um, no thanks. I'll take nice, buoyant wood any day. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Looks like she's got a furling main and mizzen. Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 All this talk about ferro yachts lately has got me thinking. I have a look on trade me and I cant believe how cheep these things are!!! For example: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 775729.htm So my question. Why are these boats so cheap? Is there anything wrong with them.I know they are slower and heaver than wood etc... but but that's not necessarily bad in an ocean cruiser. Makes you want to sell up and go for it if you can get a 60ft yacht this nice for 100k I have been on this boat - Prince of tides. It probably needs double that spent on it before its "this nice" in my opinion. It was once a very good yacht, but a succession of owners who chose not to maintain her, water ingress in the decks, systems which have been tampered with ( and really cocked up overall ) and a survey report which was less than positive may indicate why its been on the market at an ever reducing price. Last time I saw it the owner had cut the halyards because he got in strife... 6 months prior.... and they were still just dangling over the sides. Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Looks like she's got a furling main and mizzen. It has, and electric winches ( or so the advertising would tell you ) Apparently been around the world, however the plotter which is about the same age as the hull ( late 90's ) would tell you its been about as far as the near pacific islands. Its a massively spacious boat, and would be easy to live aboard. But as it is, its needing a lot of work. Advertised with a watermaker ( but upon inspection its got no pump, no motor, no membrane tubes ) so not much watermaker there. Also advertised with a genset - but its a solid lump of rust. Motor could have done massive hours, as I spent a number of hours on it, motor running, and the chronometer never counted.... Pity, it is a very nice looking boat for a Tahitian. That being said, I saw photos of it being constructed, and ALL the decks are timber, whereas the plans from Hartley was for ferrocem decks and timber cabins. I am not sure how strong the hull would be missing all that concrete. It weighs in at about 20T apparently, I suspect that a ferrocem deck tahitian of that size would weigh a fair bit more. Wheels - whats the weight of yours ( yours is a 45'er right? ) If you look around on TM, there are some pretty cheap ferros, but if you look at them, maybe the hulls are sound, but generally the rest is far, far from nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Babe, Your wooden boat might float by itself but with that lump of lead on the bottom it will go wherever the Ferro one will once you let the air out of and the water in. Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 There is a 40-ish footer here that I have had the odd weekend away on and I have to agree with the original post: a lot of boat for the money. It is one of the Sayers and although I had expected it to be sluggish in the light, I had to eat my words on that one. And interestingly, it has taken a previous owner around the world quite happily... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Wood, compared to ferro! Tell you what. We can have a duel , we'll sail towards each other on a broad reach, full speed. Bet the ferro keeps on going while the wood yacht is shattered. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Exactly. Steel, Wood, GRP, they all have to have weight somewhere to keep the mast up when the sails are out. Pure and simple. When the air goes out, the boat goes down. Actually, the only issues I ever have with our boat is the damn timber topsides. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If its gone around the world and still looks ok it probably is strong enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Check this georgeous old girl out.......http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 762757.htm Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 There is a reason that 98% of boats and 99% of airplanes are not built of concrete. It has the worst strength to weight ratio of any material imaginable, with the exception of dunny paper. Now ya see, here is a typical reply made from ingnorance and parroted because that is what other people have said. First off, there is a difference between strength to weight ratio and actual strength. Yes it is poor in weight to strength ratio. However, that does not mean that overall, the strenght of FC is not increadibly strong. Just three weeks after being plastered, FC is around 17,000PSI of tensile strength. It continues to grow from there and fully cured the tensile strength of around 27,000PSI. The only two materials that can match being steel and Alluminium. Second point if ingnorance is that it is NOT concrete. It is NOT what a footpath or a bilding is made from. It is a special plaster that is smeared over a Steel matrix. This is where the "Ferro" comes from. It is a Steel boat made from Steel rod and a Rod or Pipe main frame. The plaster is a waterproofing materail and ties the steel rod together. Just like Epoxy would be useless on it's own, of Glass mat would be usless on it's own, The two applied together produce a very strong material. With FC, The two materials produce a material that can withstand severe impacts because it has the ability of sending Impact Energy throughout the structure dissipating that energy. And I just know someone will come up with another very common myth of "They rust from the inside out". So here is the reply to that. No they Don't. First off, the Plaster works as a Reverse Osmoses membrane. Salt cannot enter through the plaster. Second, the chemicals that are within the cement work with the steel and turn the rust into something else (can't remember the name at the mo). anyone that has had to break away the cement for a repair will have seen and been amazed at how clean and shiney new the steel looks. When someone does see a rust streak on a Hull, it is because of the little wire tires that held the mesh to the rod structure, having a little "tag" too close to the surface and it is that little tage of wire that is rusting. (I have one on mine I have to find some time to fix.) But they are not structural. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Check this georgeous old girl out.......http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 762757.htm My point exactly. Allot of boat for the money. Not saying one is better than the other. Just observing the fact that these boats are so cheap and for a cruising boat, not half bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I regards to the strength of ferro cement, I was hit by a ship off the Mahia Peninsula a bit more than a year ago. I was heading nw and after the hit south. It was an enormous impact and I thought I was sunk. I let off my spot emergency device and then got the liferaft tied onto the rail then had a look forward to check the damage. The pullpit was mangled but no damage at all to the hull. I checked the bilges and dry as a bone! So I sent a I'm OK message with the Spot. This incident proves the amazing strength of this material, ten ton yacht full keel turned about by this huge impact and not a bit of damage to the ferro cement. It is seriously good stuff if well constructed. All credit to Sayers. Link to post Share on other sites
ode 0 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Hi, Friends have a ferro which was built totally by professionals and it is amazing looks like fiberglass been to aust and islands ,In my younger days down at Westhaven (40 odd years ago)we use to see some real shockers launched , sadly these boats created a reputation which has been hard to overcome , Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I was brought up on a ferro boat, 35 years on my parents are still cruising the globe in the same boat and have been living aboard for 25+ years now. No one ever picks it as a concrete boat. As Wheels said, ferro is not really concrete, its plaster over a steel frame. Some of the cheap and nasty home builds were done with more concrete style plaster. Also as mentioned most of the poorly built ones have already been disposed of. The trouble is the reputation and also the fact that its nearly impossible to see how well the hull was constructed. Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think this thread is a bit amusing - if you want to see Wheels get truly passionate, criticize ferro as a building material But seriously, the hulls are often the only part of the ferro boats on trademe worth saving, as they attract owners who are not interested in maintaining the boat ( be it that they think ferro means no maintenance, or that the ferros are a cheap entry to a vessel of the size, whatever... ) and therefore the boats are often terrible. But the hulls are sound. There are good ones though, one of the RORC's on there ( named Paula ) is a great example. As is Egmont Rose ( Tahitian ). The afore mentioned double ender looks like it may well be too. I have seen/been on several very well built and finished Ferros - there is a Tahitian in Tauranga which whilst aesthetically its more of a launch with masts than a yacht, it a very nice, sound, solid boat. Can comfortably accommodate 8 adults, 2 heads, 2 showers.This particular Tahitian achieves 7.5 knots at 4lph in a 45' yacht. Nothing to complain about there in my opinion. Actually, thats a good question for Wheels - whats your cruise burn/speed? Sure they don't sail so terribly well in poor winds, but as a cruiser, this can be well offset by the fact that they are a very stable platform from which to enjoy sailing, as opposed to bobbling around making things less comfortable. Link to post Share on other sites
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