VolvoPenta 2003 smoking at idle

[Farrari 4]

I have had my VolvoPenta 2003 28HP 3 cylinder diesel rebuilt as part of the package when buying Farrari. Ever since I have had ongoing issues that we have been slowly ironing out but I still have a perceived issue where the motor smokes slightly at idle. This doesn't seem to affect the performance of the motor and it clears up if you take the motor up on revs (anything beyond approx 1800rpm). It does however get anoying when you are at the marina on a calm day as it creates a smog bank around the boat. When out motoring under load it still smokes at low rpm but clears at higher. I'm pretty sure it is diesel smoke as it doesn't have the blueish tinge to it and the motor is not consuming any oil. The level of smoke doesn't get any better with engine temperature.

 

We have got rid of the rainbows in the water by getting the injector pumps flow tested and adjusted (one was higher than the other two). I've also had the injectors out serveral times being cleaned due to carbon fouling (assume due to injector pumps). The motor has had a compression test and a leak down test of which all cyclinders came back within normal range, although one cyclinder was slightly lower than the others.

 

Any ideas on what could be causing it or what course of action I should take to rectify it (assuming it is actually a problem)?

 

When I use the word "we" in the above context I mean the service agent. Without naming anybody, they have been very good at honouring the warranty and I have no qualms at all about their level of service. They however have come to the point where they don't beleive there is an issue and that the smoke is within limits for a 1986 motor.

[Guest]

what course of action I should take to rectify it (assuming it is actually a problem)?

I'm using patches and they seem to be going well. Yes smoking is a problem and the 1st step to recovery is recognising that it is. Errrr.....which thread am I in?

 

 

Tried new air filters and checked it has lots of good clean air to breath?

[Farrari 4]

I'm using patches and they seem to be going well. Yes smoking is a problem and the 1st step to recovery is recognising that it is. Errrr.....which thread am I in?

 

 

I'd much rather be trying to stop my motor smoking than myself. Big ups to you guys putting int he hard yards ... it will pay off

 

 

Tried new air filters and checked it has lots of good clean air to breath?

 

Yep, the original filter was cleaned and bathed in oil and I have even had another second hand one fitted. The filter is one of the old metal gauze? ones that are meant to last a lifetime if cleaned correctly. I did enquire about putting paper filters on but it all got too hard.

[Grinna 2]

No doubt you or your mechanic have looked at smoke diagnosis to try and pinpoint the problem?

 

e.g. http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/inf_pack_hdvip_dsdiag2002.pdf

 

White smoke at idle might be a valve timing issue or may be linked to your injector pump. Have you had your injector pump rebuilt?

[Guest]

With my massive experience in things diesel, which is about the same as my experience in driving a Airbus A380, smoke would have me looking at filters 1st and fuel flow 2nd, as in a smidgen too much fuel flowing maybe.

 

No idea of the mechanicals nor how to stop it but a mate reckons a lot of the diesel cars/4x4's you see blowing smoke are imports in which they wind up the fuel flow a bit to give them better performance when they sell them. And I know when I get dirty filters or constricted air intake mine starts to chuff a bit of smoke out.

 

More and more in these days of wizz bang flash there's an App for that, many miss the simple and obvious. As an aside, I was chatting to the service dept of a large chain of shops that sells things electric and electronic on Saturday. Dude reckons easy 25% of all the stuff coming in for repairs are a simple case of 'push the power plug back into the wall'.

 

So the question that also needs asking is, do you have clean fuel?

[ScarecrowR31 8]

Had similar problem on a 2gm20. PO had installed exhaust with a a slight kink in the exhaust hose. Couldnt see it only be feel. Once sorted immediate improvement. Even better once mixing elbow cleaned.

Have also heard of interior delamination of hose so that at low revs too much back pressure. My 10 cents worth

[Farrari 4]

No doubt you or your mechanic have looked at smoke diagnosis to try and pinpoint the problem?

 

e.g. http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/hdvip/inf_pack_hdvip_dsdiag2002.pdf

 

White smoke at idle might be a valve timing issue or may be linked to your injector pump. Have you had your injector pump rebuilt?

 

Ta Grinna. While I don't have white smoke persay I am a little suspicious of the timing. One of the many issues we had was one of the weights coming loose in the governer. This caused lots of grey smoke all the time and hard starting. They did play around with one of the screws on the motor that the service manual says factory set, don't touch while trying to figure out what was going on.

 

My injector pumps have been visually inspected at rebuild and flow tested the last time they were out. They found one was delivering higher pressure than the other two so they wound it back a bit. This improved the top end performance and got rid of the rainbow effect in the water. interestingly they couldn't find any specs as to what the flow should have been. All they knew was it was different.

 

Is there a way to measure the timing?

[Farrari 4]

Had similar problem on a 2gm20. PO had installed exhaust with a a slight kink in the exhaust hose. Couldnt see it only be feel. Once sorted immediate improvement. Even better once mixing elbow cleaned.

Have also heard of interior delamination of hose so that at low revs too much back pressure. My 10 cents worth

 

Thanks SB. The exhaust elbow was replaced about three years ago. It has also been pulled out and visually inspected. Is there a way to measure backpressure and if so what would the correct amount be?

[Farrari 4]

With my massive experience in things diesel, which is about the same as my experience in driving a Airbus A380, smoke would have me looking at filters 1st and fuel flow 2nd, as in a smidgen too much fuel flowing maybe.

 

No idea of the mechanicals nor how to stop it but a mate reckons a lot of the diesel cars/4x4's you see blowing smoke are imports in which they wind up the fuel flow a bit to give them better performance when they sell them. And I know when I get dirty filters or constricted air intake mine starts to chuff a bit of smoke out.

 

More and more in these days of wizz bang flash there's an App for that, many miss the simple and obvious. As an aside, I was chatting to the service dept of a large chain of shops that sells things electric and electronic on Saturday. Dude reckons easy 25% of all the stuff coming in for repairs are a simple case of 'push the power plug back into the wall'.

 

So the question that also needs asking is, do you have clean fuel?

 

I refuse to use the fuel jetty at the HMB marina as I have had two occassions where it has dumped water contaminated fuel into my tanks. I only use diesel from a service station that I trust. Is this clean ... who knows but its the best option I have at the moment. The tank is always kept topped up, especially during winter.

[Grinna 2]

There probably is a way to measure valve timing, but I'm guessing it involves circular protractors stuck on the crank pulley, valve gear covers off, time consuming and patience testing measurement with feeler gauges and a workshop manual with the specs for your engine. It'd be a matter of turning the engine over by hand checking for when the valves open and close in relation to the crank position.

 

Interstingly, a thought occurred to me that the one cylinder with the slightly lower compression reading might be due to a valve not seating properly, like because of a carbon buildup or similar. I wonder if a poorly seating valve might cause the smoking at idle. Have you tried the "Italian tune up" with this engine? (i.e. running it hard under load for an hour or so) to see if the smoking at idle improves or not? (hard running may burn out the carbon that builds up as a result of underloaded or overfuelled engine operation). I'd be inclined to subject the engine to an hour or two of HARD running under load once it's warmed up to see if that helps any.

 

If you have any doubts about your fuel quality I can recommend Fuelmaster diesel additive. It emulsifies any water in your fuel (basically suspends the water in tiny droplets throughout the fuel) which stops diesel bug because there's no water layer and diesel/water interface for the bug to live and feed. The water then gets sent thru your engine with no ill effects. Its also quite tolerant of overdosing without any ill effects and you only need something like 10ml of additive for 40 litres of diesel. No connection to the company, just a happy customer.

[too_tall 15]

Injector timing can cause this - not saying that this is your issue, but I would suggest a good diesel mechanic could be the requirement here. Maybe not a marine one either. Have had some poor experiences with so called "qualified" marine diesel injector technicians.

[Farrari 4]

Injector timing can cause this - not saying that this is your issue, but I would suggest a good diesel mechanic could be the requirement here. Maybe not a marine one either. Have had some poor experiences with so called "qualified" marine diesel injector technicians.

 

Any sugestions on a good diesel mechanic that knows the older motors? This is basically an old perkins motor (I think) so it's not anything flash or oddball.

[Farrari 4]

There probably is a way to measure valve timing, but I'm guessing it involves circular protractors stuck on the crank pulley, valve gear covers off, time consuming and patience testing measurement with feeler gauges and a workshop manual with the specs for your engine. It'd be a matter of turning the engine over by hand checking for when the valves open and close in relation to the crank position.

 

Interstingly, a thought occurred to me that the one cylinder with the slightly lower compression reading might be due to a valve not seating properly, like because of a carbon buildup or similar. I wonder if a poorly seating valve might cause the smoking at idle. Have you tried the "Italian tune up" with this engine? (i.e. running it hard under load for an hour or so) to see if the smoking at idle improves or not? (hard running may burn out the carbon that builds up as a result of underloaded or overfuelled engine operation). I'd be inclined to subject the engine to an hour or two of HARD running under load once it's warmed up to see if that helps any.

 

If you have any doubts about your fuel quality I can recommend Fuelmaster diesel additive. It emulsifies any water in your fuel (basically suspends the water in tiny droplets throughout the fuel) which stops diesel bug because there's no water layer and diesel/water interface for the bug to live and feed. The water then gets sent thru your engine with no ill effects. Its also quite tolerant of overdosing without any ill effects and you only need something like 10ml of additive for 40 litres of diesel. No connection to the company, just a happy customer.

 

I suspect it would be more injector timing than valve timing but I could be wrong. I do run the motor for about 5-10 minutes on hammer down most times that I go out. I haven't tried an hour and I would want some sort of professional advice for that sort of duration in case something went bang and it voided my warranty. Jeez it would fair consume some fuel.

 

I already use the Fuelmaster addiitive so it's good to hear someone else recommend it. I was starting to wonder if it was a good/common product.

[wheels 543]

These are a tricky engine to set up if you are not used to these kind. The injector pumps require shims and and if the camshaft was replaced, then setting up the timing angle needs to carried out. That is done with a set of rings with marks on them to set the correct angle of alignment.

If you want the Service manual, PM me and I an email it to you.

 

Smoke is usually in three types. White'ish smoke is unburnt fuel. It means that for some reason, the cylinder has not fired or completely fired and the unburnt atomised fuel is blown out the exhaust.

Black smoke is poorly burnt fuel due to not enough oxygen which results in the fuel not fully completing it's combustion and thus ends up becoming Carbon particles. This is a result of insufficient Oxygen for the level of fuel dose and can be caused by not enough air getting into the engine, such as a blocked filter, or the engine is under too much load and too much fuel to the possible volume of air that can be sucked in happens.

Blue smoke is usually caused by oil. This can be normal for older engines and can be caused by many things. But the main cause (if the engine is not worn out) is the engine is being loved to death. NEVER allow a Diesel engine to warm up idling. Start engine, get it into gear and give it a few revs. They MUST be warmed up under load, or the rings will allow oil to pass.

Another cause of blue smoke at start up is just oil that has condensed in the bore and exhaust when it was last shut down. It does take a few minutes to burn away, but once gone, the engine should run clean.

Of course, that is all simplified. There can be many more complex issues causing smoke and a good Diesel tech should be able to understand what to look for.

 

 

Fuelset is another additive that supposedly turns the water into something that can be burnt. Expect it settles the water out as a white emulsion to the bottom of the tank.

But I do not recommend any of the additives that supposedly mix with water and turn it into something that the engine can then burn. That is because none of these additives actually do what they say. It is simply not possible. You can not turn water into something that burns. If you could, then the worlds energy problems would be solved. A water droplet entering a stinking hot injector tip literally explodes and risks damaging the injector tip. No matter what chemical you mix that water droplet with.

[tuffyluffy 76]

Farrari, if your after a second opinion on your Volvo, i can highly recommend Dave Gutry (I'll have his number somewhere) as someone who knows these motors inside out, is a great bloke to deal with and an avid yachty. I had some issues with my MD2030 and he did a brilliant job with it, and was happy for me to supply my own parts. I never thought my 3 cyl diesel could run soo smooth.

[Kestrahl 6]

We have a Volvo 2003 which basically had/has the same thing, whiteish smoke when starting and idling. Just enough that you notice it. I haven't bothered doing anything about it as it hasn't been using any oil and doesn't seem to have any other problems. Haven't noticed it lately, we replaced the fuel pump recently and cleaned the air filter.

[wheels 543]

As I said and have said many times re engines. Don't end up loving your engine to death. Start it, get it into gear and give it some load to warm up on. Work it hard every now and then.

[Guest]

So Wheels your saying they go better worked fairly hard? How hard do you think is best? I'm sort of inclined to be gentle with the beast.

[wheels 543]

I reckon the best procedure is as follows.

Start engine and give it about 60 seconds to allow oil to come up to pressure and get around all moving parts. Or in other words, start engine and then go drop the mooring line, up anchor or drop berthing lines. Get into gear and underway, but don't go reving the guts out of it. Idle out of the marina because you shouldn't be speeding for a start. If out in a bay, then no more than 50% throttle and simply watch the temp rise. This way the engine components all heat evenly'ish. The part that takes the greatest hammering in a cold engine is the Valve seat, as it gets super hot quickly with the rest of the metal behind it being cold. Plus when the thermostat opens, it suddenly dumps cold'ish water into a hot'ish engine. It's all about evenly heating, not shocking components. Once engine temp is up to normal, then open her up and go for it.

That's the way I do it anyway, but the important issue is not to allow those rings to slide over a cold oily bore for too long, or the end result is glazing and you will start to notice the blue'ish smoke. I have bought some very smoky engines back to normal this way.

[Guest]

Injector timing can cause this - not saying that this is your issue, but I would suggest a good diesel mechanic could be the requirement here. Maybe not a marine one either. Have had some poor experiences with so called "qualified" marine diesel injector technicians.

 

Any sugestions on a good diesel mechanic that knows the older motors? This is basically an old perkins motor (I think) so it's not anything flash or oddball.

 

 

Greg Pittams