Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What's a CD player? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thats an earlier version of vd. Wheels that load of stuff would sink mine without the herd of females! You are quite right if you have enough hot water the gals will be swarming just look at the clientel at the hot pools. Sure we all have different needs and priorities it seems to me that having a perfectly good engine already why not use it to the max. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 having a perfectly good engine already why not use it to the max. Sure, if the engine is small. Ours is a 6.354. That's 6 cylinder, 354 cubic inch. So firstly, it has waaaay more Hp than that needed to generate power. So to idle away generating is firstly wasting a lot of Fuel and secondly, bad for the engine and an engine that size is expensive to rebuild. So a small dedicated engine generating power is far more practical in my situation. So how we work it now, is that the Solar panels now do most of the charging. In the evening when Dawn is cooking a meal with the microwave, the genset is running the microwave and the charger is topping up the banks and I am watching the news, just in case the world blew up and someone failed to tell me. Link to post Share on other sites
Chewing Gum 17 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think simple is best. We just run two alternators off the main engine (no smart charger but bigger alternator for house batteries) and engine heated water for the shower only and all LED lights with no microwaves or pressure water except for shower. 2x half hour charging sessions per day is enough for engine driven freezer compressor, hot showers and batteries topped up for four people. We do not have solar panels or wind generator. We have 2 x 6v house batteries - 220ah each (I think). I know no load is not meant to be good for diesels but we have been doing this for ten years and motor is fine. it does get some hard running in between - usually at 2600rpm with bursts to about 3300rpm (60hp turbo yanmar ) I am talking about 3-4 week cruises - not liveaboard but it should not make a lot of difference. Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 How much solar do you have Wheels? Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 At the moment, 380W, but hoping to add another 190 this summer. Link to post Share on other sites
Farrari 4 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 At the moment, 380W, but hoping to add another 190 this summer. @ 570W that's just north of 50AH on a sunny day with NZ sunbugs. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No not really. You can never get panels in perfect positions on boats. So as a result, 30A is more like it. The best I have seen is 18A with the two panels. But I can still get 3 or 4A on an overcast day in the middle of winter and 8A on a very overcast day in Summer. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 30 amp! You would have more potential in the wind from the herd of women coming aboard for showers! 2 x 100 amp alternators would top that in 15 minutes. Seriously Wheels, these types of things are really good to top off the last 20 % of charge but with lithium batteries just put as much current in as you can till they are full. Sounds like a much better arrrangement with the lithiums. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Mainly because the Cost of Lithium is still more expensive than the entire electrical system I have and then i need special charging with Lithium. It is not as simple as just connecting to an Alternator and thumping charge back in. Plus it simply does not last as long as a good quality FLA battery. By the way, if you can monitor and control a Flooded Lead acid battery, you can actually thump charge back into it just as fast as a Lithium. It is just that the cost of a charger that can do that is just not worth the cost. But it can and has been done. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This is interesting Wheels.......http://www.e-vconcepts.com/Lithiumvslead.html A couple of quotes...."The lead acid battery powered car lasted two years before needing battery replacement and the lithium powered car is still running the same batteries in the fifth year." "If you start trying to gain range with lead acid batteries you need bigger motors and higher amperage controllers to pull the weight. Lead acid batteries are a diminishing return." I try not to be a bore with quotes but it does seem lithium has huge advantages over lead acid. Safety is one of them, lead acid batteries if damaged and contacting salt water makes a deadly gas, not sure which but think its chlorine so that alone is a significant advantage. Seems lithium is cheaper in the long run as mentioned by ferrari. The saving in weight and space is huge and in a yacht of obvious importance. "The weight of lead acid batteries has always been the disadvantage to bringing additional range to electric vehicle concepts. Lithium batteries with the same energy density weigh less than 20% that of the lead acid battery. With the life cycles of lead batteries under 500 and the life cycles of lithium over 2000. The lithium batteries do not expel explosive hydrogen gasses and they are not filled with corrosive acid in unsealed cases as is true with lead batteries. These are the reasons E-V Concepts has stopped using lead acid batteries in all its battery propulsion conversions and new custom built vehicles." From E-V Concepts. I want one in my Ducati, lead acid is 4kg, lithium less than 1 kg so losing 3 kg right up under the seat. This weight loss, being high, will have significant effects on the bikes handling, braking and acceleration and is a very cheap way to get this improvement. I think lithium will soon be in just about every application and we will just install and forget about them for 10 years or so. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Weight saving is certainly a biggy. But that is about the end of the argument. A really good FLA, charged correctly, will outlast a Lithium. But yes, you do not get the power range from the FLA. There are now many of the first lot of Toyota Prius going to scrap because the batteries are stuffed and replacement is twice the second hand value of the car. Personally, I think the future is not in a Chemical battery. At least with all known technology, chemical batteries are expensive, the contents are Toxic and by their very nature of operation, they wear out. Lithium maybe safer if it goes under water, but I doubt it will survive anyway. And they have a lot of temperature sensors, so providing those haven't been tampered with, the battery should not explode. But with no safety features, they are very capable of exploding in a very dangerous and violent way. Link to post Share on other sites
VirgilLogan 0 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 We're adding more solar to the cat. This should give us 160ah / day in summer and about 120ah / day in winter. I reckon our useage is about 130ah / day excluding significant use (ie 20+ hours a day on a passage) of the yet to be fitted autopilot. Plan was to tow a water generator to power the autopilot offshore. I am looking at one of the Honda / Yammy 2000w jobs as a backup. Still a little noisy to run all day, guess that is where the diesel ones come into their own being a permanent fixture. If you can fit it (and on a multi that is a bit easier) solar has to be the way to go - no fuel, no noise, no moving parts. Look at other options just as a back up if solar doesn't quite do the trick. Thanks for sharing such a vital information..I think using solar panels is best way to produce clean. pollution free and cheap electricity. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 As I started this topic I thought I should give an update on my installation as I have just returned from 5.5 months cruising in Tonga and Fiji on the Bavaria 44. I installed a Lombardini 4kva "suitcase genset" directly behind the engine in the engine bay with some minor modification to the rear cabins to extend the engine bay. The unit is quieter than the main engine and weighs 87kg. I have also installed a Mastervolt 100amp smart charger and upgraded the house batteries to 460amphrs. The system worked well apart from a couple of problems related to the installation and dirty fuel in Tonga. About 2 hrs generator time per day (1 hr morning and late afternoon ) kept up with power requirements for: Autohelm for passagemaking 12v refrigeration (1 fridge and 2 freezers) 12v watermaker (25ltrs/hr) LED cabin lighting and nav lights with no restrictions. Stereo /ipod/tablet/computer charging etc Raymarine C80 chartplotter and AIS running 24/7 when passagemaking. 230v electric hotwater (A must have to keep the girls happy) 230v popup toaster for breakfast(see comment above) 230v on demand for powertools if required. Built in redundancy for battery charging in the event of engine alternator failure. The genset uses about 0.75lts diesel per hr under full load compared to probably close to 3 ltrs per hr for the Volvo D2 55 main engine , saved a hell of a lot of main engine hrs and I didn't need wind and solar gear hanging all over the boat waiting to be wiped off in big seas! Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The genset uses about 0.75lts diesel per hr under full load compared to probably close to 3 ltrs per hr for the Volvo D2 55 main engine , saved a hell of a lot of main engine hrs and I didn't need wind and solar gear hanging all over the boat waiting to be wiped off in big seas! Horses for courses ... The dollar comparison is down to how much you use the gen set/ engine. ...and the cost of purchase of the gen set, and the fact that you now have to maintain both, and the fact that your idea of wiping off solar panels is....well I dont know anyone that , that has happened too, so the odds must be huge, ...and you now have a much more complex boat system (yep I know about them)... So lets be real. What you have gained is a turn key solution to your power needs. It keeps your boat looking the way you like it (I understand that)...will cost you lots more over time in both maintenance and system failures, but allows the full use of your needs at anytime. I post this as a reflection on power needs. If you need it, ( and I am honestly saying that that choice should be up to the boat owner) then a genset may be the only anwser. If you dont, then solar panels , a reasonable size battery bank and an occasional motor run might surfice. Most long distance cruising boats use their main engine a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Simple, get rid of the girls! The lights in our town went brighter when my daughter left for Oz! Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Simple, get rid of the girls! The lights in our town went brighter when my daughter left for Oz! hhmmm...time I wrote to my local MP about rampant NZ immigration....and no, I am not going to be fooled by that old trick that it is an emissions trading policy... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.