SSB is dead, long live Satph

[Guest]

The only real reason I can think of actually needing a sat phone is if there's an injury onboard that needs medical advice. Sure lots of fun reasons to have one like keeping in contact , email. Now with an epirb aboard any mayday situation is covered. So the phone or ssb is for pan pan calls as a real need sort of thing. Now I'm guessing that if a real situation emerged needing more time on a pan pan call, the receiving party should be able to arrange it for the distressed craft. Aren't we getting a bit sort of dependant on these devices?

[wheels 543]

Depends simply on how much info you either need to receive and send bbay. Of course it also depends on the Cruising as well. As in where you are traveling. KM's situation was time important, where as for other cruisers, passage time may not be important. An EPIRB is for emergency only(as we all know), Where as actual communication can be needed for many reasons. Weather info for route planning and sending back a simple L/L for someone to know your position is the simplest. But now days for instance, you also need to contact Oz (96hrs ahead??? is it) for entry. That was actually where KM struggled the most. Trying to contact an authority somewhere in OZ and the HF proved useless to do so. Cellph was out of range. Satph would have made things simple. So it is not so much relying too much on equipment, it is making the equipment simpler, more valuable to carry by it's varied uses and needs and being able to do a job quickly with no hassles.

[Guest]

Guess what, route planning and weather maps are a luxury, not a necessity. We sailed for years without even a VHF.

If starting from scratch I'd a add a satphone, mostly to say hi to family who may not be aboard. Cruisers chat fests we normally would pass on.

[Guest]

Correct Wheels. I am talking time important or mission critical communications, and as noted before, for me doing a install into a bare boat. If I had a big ocean cruiser I'd have both, a Satph 1st and HF when the chance came along. Just saying if you had the choice of either but knot both, Satph is the better option these days.

 

Biggest problem with pre paid is the limited time you have to use your bought minutes. (Bit like phone prepaid in the bad old days).

You can buy as little as 10mins of time for around US$12 and it'll last 720 days, that's 2 years in which to use them.

 

Correct Ogre. I've just done 13 days with no interweb, weather fax, route planning and with only very patchy off the boat communication. We survived very well Thank you.

 

What's more the bloody fridge packed up quick so we also had no cold beer, that was harder than no weather fax. It was interesting to watch all that blood flowing into Otto's Heineken system. At times it sure wasn't pretty

[RedLine 0]

KM

 

Ive Had SSB/ PActor Modems on all my Cruising boats so far.

 

But there are other options:

 

1) Second Hand Ham Radio tweaked for Marine Freq's are commonly for sale on Trade Me for under $1000 NZ.

2) You could use a simple Aerial Tuner manual for a few hundred dollars., throw up a wire on a halyard for a simple Aerial

 

ON a race boat I'd likely go down the Sat PH route, but also carry an SSB Reveiver (small compact & portable) for couple hundred dollars, can tune into the SSB nets, and pickup faxes etc offshore if you link it to your Laptop. And use the Sat PH for your one to one stuff.

 

REdline

[Guest]

These SPOT devices are pretty cool also. There's other brands about that do similar but I believe you can send text messages with some and of course the mayday.

Yes I understand people have different needs Wheels, being in business probably means having to talk too much, no matter where you are.

[darkside 61]

We had both SSB and Inmarsat.

Inmarsat worked well and everywhere we tried to use it except a few days in the Indian Ocean and eastern Pacific.

Once we got our SSB/pactor going right the satphone didn't get much use because of the cost.

To get more out of the SSB it does take a bit of setting up. Propagation programmes are great but the higher the sun the higher the frequency is a good start.

Easy stuff to get a better signal.

1. Get a better earth

2. Charge your batteries just before the sched

3. Increase the cable sizes to both the SSB and tuner

If you are starting an installation from scratch short runs between the earth, tuner and aerial seems to make a difference.

If you are social or are heading to remote areas where the cruising community is important the SSB is great.

In places like the Med and the Caribbean the cruiser nets are mostly drivel and we turned it off.

[idlerboat 116]

You can buy as little as 10mins of time for around US$12 and it'll last 720 days, that's 2 years in which to use them.

 

Wow that is way cheaper than I have found and two years to use...who is the supplier ??

[Jean 5]

SSB is not dead, do not underestimate the value of the SSB. We are now about three quarters around and we have found the various nets we have participated in , especially passage nets, to be an invaluable source of information and yes social chit chat and comraderie.

When we were half way across the Indian Ocean feeling a little nervous with a large fishing boat bearing down on us it was nice to be able to ask the morning net to stand by until the situation became clear. There was no one near enough to help but at least some one would have known what had happened to us!!!!

Being part of a Net also saved us time and money coming up the Red sea especially as cruisers in front shared their experiences and deals.

Twice we have been able to drop fuel to people at sea because of the SSB Net. Coming across the Atlantic in December 2011 we were able to assist a yacht on our Net which had lost its rudder, with extra fuel. The SSB Net was able to assist and give moral support to them as soon as they lost their rudder they were given advice as to setting up a steering drogue. Being able to talk to some one every few hours in the first 48 hours gave them help and encouragement. They sailed 1500 miles under drogue steering.

Yes there can be lots of chit chat but we wouldnt be without it, a Sat phone is carried as well by many cruisers but SSB is so much more friendly we use a pactor modem for emails and are happy with that. SAt Phones are quicker in that regard and when our small band of 8 yachts came along the Yemen coast in 2010 we were pleased that one of our group had a SAT ph to call the Coalition forces each day.

But for long term cruising we think an SSB is a must.

Coming across the Atlantic we would not have known that the Kiwi boats beat the rest of the world in the fishing department without an SSB.

[idlerboat 116]

Hi Jean,

do you use full Ham or just marine HF (or both).

 

cheers

[Guest]

Far out KM, no cold beers and no wind, on the same trip. Bet your glad to be home!

[Kestrahl 6]

We've been up in the Islands this season with just a sat phone. We've met afew boats with only sat phone but most have SSB and Sat phone, some have just SSB and a couple have had neither!. We do miss a SSB for the cruiser nets, rag of the air etc.

 

The Isatphone pro has worked fine, no external aerial. Email and GRIB files thru Xgate email program. To get a 20k GRIB normally takes 3 - 4 minutes call time. We've used about 40 minutes in 2-3 months.

[Guest]

We've been up in the Islands this season with just a sat phone. We've met afew boats with only sat phone but most have SSB and Sat phone, some have just SSB and a couple have had neither!. We do miss a SSB for the cruiser nets, rag of the air etc.

 

The Isatphone pro has worked fine, no external aerial. Email and GRIB files thru Xgate email program. To get a 20k GRIB normally takes 3 - 4 minutes call time. We've used about 40 minutes in 2-3 months.

 

 

Question. Have you used the Sat phone in 10 ft plus swells or when the boat is constantly rocking. If they do continue to operate without reconnection they must have a gyro gimball fitting incorporated in them. We kept on loosing connection about every 76 secs due to lossing alignment with the sat.

[Kestrahl 6]

Have used it when the boat is bouncing around badly and it hasn't ever disconnected, we have 1 person holding the phone with the aerial pointed in the direction of the best coverage - normally 3 - 4 - 5 bars while doing the data call.

[Jean 5]

hi idlerboat

 

We dont have Ham licences but many do, would be cheaper for email. Winlink for Ham users is free whereas we pay 250US a year for our email/sailmail service. That gives us 90 min a week although you can use more if you have problems as long as you let the Sailmail people know. I often use more when at sea with getting in gribs, sending emails and blog but have only had one warning and that was going across the Indian Ocean. There were 50 or more cruisers out there at the one time with quite a drain on the sailmail facility.

[Guest]

You can buy as little as 10mins of time for around US$12 and it'll last 720 days, that's 2 years in which to use them.

 

Wow that is way cheaper than I have found and two years to use...who is the supplier ??

Seems to be a case of the Sat company setting wholesale rate and then people selling off those at whatever they like.

 

Here is some from NZ's marine deals. These are similar to a few places in NZ -

 

Satellite Phone Rates

Part No Description USD

IN-01-GSPS 25 E GSPS 25 Unit Card - 730 Days Validity $ 22.98

IN-01-GSPS 100 E GSPS 100 Unit card - 730 Days Validity $ 87.32

IN-01-GSPS 250 E GSPS 250 Unit Card - 730 Days Validity $ 215.99

IN-01-GSPS 1000 E GSPS 1000 Unit Card - 730 Days Validity $ 850.18

IN-01-GSPS 2500 E GSPS 2500 Unit card - 730 Days Validity $ 2,068.01

IN-01-GSPS 5000 E GSPS 5000 Unit Card - 730 Days Validity $ 4,136.03

 

So there's 25 mins for US$23, NZ$28.75 or Aussie $24, there abouts and it looks to get cheaper the more minutes you buy. The 730 days starts the moment you active that card.

 

Wright Comms themselves, the Inmarsat agents in NZ show the same sort of deals but at what works out to be US$1.10 min, which isn't much above the rates above.

 

Those rates do line up exactly with what you can buy direct in the US. Strangely enough Aussie does seem to be a stand out in how much higher they charge, I've seen three times higher over there. But I do know you can get the above cheaper rates also. I very nearly brought the handset at the Sanctuary Cove show where it was on special at A$600, a hell good price by everyone's std, but I didn't as they wanted to tie me into a 'contract' meaning I'd have to buy my mins from them. As it panned out their rates were bloody sharp. But if in Aussie suss hard at the rates as some are pure thievery and it does appear they all tend to run a 'contract' system, something you don't have to do here or many other places.

 

Mind you after sussing some more marine shops last week, thievery is something some Aussies can do bloody well. man a good NZ chandler would rip an Aussie one a new ring piece in minutes.

[Guest]

Mr Grinna Sir, as much as I do respect your opinions, you're wrong again ....... yet sort of right also.

 

I'd also knot rip any SSB out of your boat. I'd keep it for 100% sure but I would also get a Satph.

 

On costs I'd argue that bit with you. Lets have a quick suss of fitting a SSB against a Satph.

 

HF Set -

A good Icom US$3420.00

Stay Insulator US$320.00

Tuner US$710.00

Items middle of the range sort of thing. So potentially a HF set up would knock you US$4500 installed there abouts. This can be used to get voice, fax and interweb data. Sending stuff other than voice maybe possible, I just don't know.

 

On going running costs are low as long as you ensure you have a good electrical system to back it up which does include good charging and good battery banks. sh*t wiring and batteries = sh*t HF performance. So while there is some ongoing costs they aren't large but could be if you aren't careful.

 

Satph -

Inmarsat Pro US$595.00

External Ariel US$219.00

So installed with external ariel close as US$950.00. This can be used to get/send voice, interweb and Txts.

 

On going running costs. You can pre-pay 250mins for US$250 and they will last 720 days. So on todays rate that's NZ$1.25 per min.

 

Prices from Denfender so a good average I'd think. Pretty much the same as they are here but we know few of you want to believe that

 

So a Satph plus installing it plus 3550 minutes of calling is the same as the install cost of a HF set. Ball parking it all obviously. Assuming an average radio call to drop a position/alls well note is 1 minute. That's well over 9 years of doing that every single day before you reach the install cost of a SSB. So I'm knot to sure the 'cost' argument is that valid anymore. Sure it's there but it's nothing like what many would think I'd suggest.

 

Although if you're cruising , getting the morning gossip and discussion on the local 'net' about weather and other boats in the vicinity etc is an advantage. Its 'word of mouth' radio which can bring a lot of expertise into a discussion.

True, that is one benefit of HF I didn't think of this morning. There is also the 'if it's going tits up' the help call via HF will or should have a wider audience.

 

But for simple day to day one to one stuff HF is dead, forget it, it's sh*t. Just spent 8 days trying to raise Aussie to give them a heads up we will be there shortly call. The entire time we were chatting to Russell Radio (good team to do it with by the way), boats in Fiji, around NZ and one in Canada. Could we raise anyone in Aussie? Nope knot even a dingo. At one stage we did ring Russell and ask if Aussie still existed. About 4 days out I thought feck this and did a 'Any Aussie station can you hear me' call. The only response was from Hobart and as VMR, the station Aussie Customs said we had to talk too, was in Qld they couldn't pass any message along. 2 days out we got some station 100's of miles inland but reception was total crap. In the end we finally raised the required VMR only 29 miles off the Aussie coast and using the 4meg band of all things, VHF couldn't do it. The VMR building is another 50mts inland. We had cell phone reception before we could raise a Aussie station on HF, it was fecking ridiculous.

 

One NZ$1.25 Satph call and none of that sh*t would needed to have happened. Nor the potential stress of being locked up by anal Aussie officialdom. As it panned out the Aussie Customs lady was 100% magnificent and as we had left a trail of 'trying hard to contact someone', it was easy to show we tried very hard to comply.

 

Last night I ordered a Satph.

 

 

 

Knot me where do you get your information.

if your exaggeration prices are anything to by

 

ICOM

IC-M802 - Digital Marine SSB Radio

 

$1,849.99

 

+ Add to Cart

 

ICOM

AT-140 Antenna Tuner For SSB M802

 

$479.99

 

 

http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Guest]

Knot me where do you get your information.

if your exaggeration prices are anything to by

 

ICOM

IC-M802 - Digital Marine SSB Radio

 

$1,849.99

 

+ Add to Cart

 

ICOM

AT-140 Antenna Tuner For SSB M802

 

$479.99

 

 

http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Defender Marine as everyone knows everything is always much much cheaper if knot brought in NZ. So rather than quote a NZ number.

 

The feckers are now on sale, maybe they saw this thread

Icom M802 SSB Marine Radio System - List US$3420.00, now on special at US$1839.00. It's the cheapest SSB listed today on that site. The parts were from the same place and were a guess as to whether you actually need them or knot.

 

The same AT-140 tuner - US$710 but can be had for US$477 at the moment from Defender.

 

Pays to shop around doesn't it. If you do buy one just make sure it has 'Australia' installed, the one we had didn't look like it had that feature

 

Interesting to see many of these places dropping some prices by big amounts. Mind you a couple of these big places are in the process of going tits-up or trying like hell to avoid that. Some big manes in some big sh*t at the moment. Then you get Aussie where some seem to be getting right back to their roots and exhibiting some very burglar like pricing.

[idlerboat 116]

Thanks KM..

that is getting more towards what I can afford. The prices here are just stoooped !

(But we have had that discusion before). Cheapish sat that I dont use too much along with my simple but very solid HF (no pactor modem etc) plus vhf is a comms solution that I would be very happy with.

 

As an aside...If Iwhatsit brings out a waterproof Ipad.........then most of the Nav suppliers have had it.

The full bore Nav apps are so cheap ...and they are good.

...and I dont even own a fireblight ridden product.

[idlerboat 116]

Try MFJ in the states for HF antenna stuff. Big Ham manufacturer. Good quality and great prices. (No not my Uncle and I dont own shares etc)...........