Safety issues - from the A2B thread

[Guest]

This really is a great thread guys. I'm learning a heap!

 

 

Towed the 2nd anchor rode in a big loop just to add drag to her arse.....

 

Did you attach any weight anywhere along the loop to stop it skipping across the water KM? ...or is it heavy enough that it doesn't need it?

[Guest]

So what I am trying to say here is that it is very much a "it depends" on the type of Hull as to how a Boat will handle a Sea in any particular situation.of them. .

 

Not a truer word was said!! The OLD full length keels of Slocum's day lay a hull well and broaching didn't seem an issue. Keels got smaller and deeper or greater counter weight then there were three of them , two of them and... well, sea "hugging" seemed to be a forgotten thing as speed became the prerequisite!

[Island Time 1,239]

it also depends how much of the wave is breaking crest. Big waves in themselves are relatively harmless - its the breaker that can roll you.

The old Wellington police launch Lady Liz was lost due to being rolled bow over stern in a large breaker at Wellington Heads. The 45ft yacht Destiny was rolled (pitchpoled = stern over bow) trying to run before similar waves in the June Storm on the way to Tonga years back (can't remember how many)

 

A large enough wave that steep and breaking WILL roll a yacht end over end. Surf down the wave, bow digs in, stern is carried past the bow by the breaker. The only devices that can hold the bow or stern down, and pull it through the wave is a series drogue or a parachute.

 

Running downwind, either dead downwind or at an angle, is all good until that one wave that kills you, It can go from all OK to all not OK in a moment. Remember you only got to talk to the people who got away with what they did (Including me). That does not mean it was the best course of action.

 

I was surprised to read David's experience of a broach while using a Drogue. The idea of a drogue is to hold the stern to weather and prevent a broach. It didn't in this case. Also being washed from astern with "20ft of breaking water" could punch in the washboards. I believe that running, with or without a drogue, could end in tears in the ultimate storm.

 

That being said, other than grounding and being lost, I do not know of a single vessel being lost while using a drogue or a parachute!

 

Just to scare you - the theoretical maximum height of a wind driven wave is about 130ft! God forbid any of us ever see that at sea. Plan for the worst, hope for the best...

[Guest]

KM - what speeds were you doing?. Off the top of my head what you had out wouldn't have been nearly sufficient.

[Guest]

I believe Robin Knox Johnson simply trailed warps when he raced in the first single handed round the world race. Must be a fair bit of merit to that method at least in a long keeled yacht.

From what I've read you only need a wave one third your waterline length to be able to capsize the yacht.

[Guest]

Matt- that was my first ever attempt at a drogue (that's why I suspect KM simply didn't have enough out). Later attempts with greater drag made a difference that was like night and day. I started with an anchor rode as KM described, then added anchor, then chain, then another anchor, then more chain, then the #2, about then it started working.

Next time I went out I made sure I had something designed for the job - even better. Then used it several times and was delighted with the result.

It has to have enough drag to stop you surfing, if it is right the stern will lift, the boat will just start to pick up speed, then the brakes come on and the wave passes under you. A lot of people think you might be prone to being pooped but I have never come close on a "modern" boat. Only time (and it was minor) was a full keeled ultra heavy double ended gaff ketch.

 

Like everyone is saying, get out and figure out what works for your boat. And practice deploying and retrieving before you have to do it in anger.

[Guest]

Might just go for a winter sail to the Chathams. Can,t be worse than going past the Ranfurly can it?

[Jon 360]

K M Camalot is the word you were looking for,

Brought something similar back from Noumea last November and motored the whole way !

This stuff is all good but you have to balance it with the reality that it not often this bad.

[Guest]

Contest29 - Rope around primary winch both sides and the chain in the middle. The idea wasn't so much to slow us down but just to make sure the arse stayed behind the bow by creating drag, it make steering her a lot easier. I don't think it really slowed her that much. We had no chute or drogue aboard so I was going to add things like more coils of rope, sails in bags well tied up and bits like that. In the end I didn't but was ready too just in case.

 

IT - She slide real easy so while a couple of breakers weren't good for the undies as soon as she leaned over she effectively had no keel so just slide along the front edge of the white water. Wasn't ideal but we had a good crew so it almost became a game as to who could slide her the best.

 

Ogre - 61nm in 10 hours, the fastest section of the entire trip. I did say she was a heavy

 

I must add here that the wind was up our arse blowing us directly at Opua 350nm ahead of us, which was our destination. The lads decided that rather parking up or doing something like that as the shite came in so very fast it would leave very fast so we'd push on until we felt it was getting too spooky. After a while we tuned in to the boat/weather package and it wasn't really that bad. Hence I didn't want to slow her too much in case we got poor steering issues. But thinking about it afterwards if I had been able to slow here a little more that would have been better I suspect. We had that weather for around 10-12 hours before it tapered back significantly. If we weren't getting blown exactly where we wanted to go or it was a different crew or a different boat I'm very sure we could have done things completely different.

 

Somewhere within 40nm of us was a Farr 38, she had a hell of a time and spend a lot on her side when chatting to the skipper afterwards. Knot sure exactly what she did but I heavily suspect she wasn't prepared that well so was lucky. Also about 3 hours into Keri Radio said a tug lost it's tow and last position was 60nm from us but they had since lost them. It was towing 3 very large (20mts long) steel tanks chained together. That did knot make KM happy and he had multiple paranoia attacks during the following 12hrs.

 

Bingo, that's the one D. She was a Bob Stewart Camalot. For a heavy she sailed well as long as you kept her on her feet. Took out a Davo 44 in a fun race while in Tonga. Mind you us putting 4 out on Trapezes did help us

 

And Yes again D, stuff like that is more the exception than the rule but you do need to have some plan if it arrives. I'm wondering what a 930 would be like in stuff like that so I can plan for it. I'm thinking bow into it off a good sized chute. She is knife like bow on so hopefully .........

[wheels 543]

I wish I could work out how to take a Photo with how the waves actually look. Anything I take always seems to look so lame to what we were experiencing.

Anyway (If I have the correct picture) the structure in the background was a French Navy Frigate that had just left Wellington Harbour.

[erice 732]

^

THAT looks pretty nasty

[smithy09 50]

Well on board this vessel last night, they chose the "continue on downwind" option. Top gust of 64 knots and 14 metre waves, off WA near Perth. The info from the bridge was later when things had calmed down..

[Guest]

KM Wrote:

 

Have you had your ISAF Reg 21 check and clearance lately OC?

I suspect most here you see that as your most pressing issue at the moment.

 

OC replied:

 

 

That's your opinion. Have you been north, close to the surface and checked your Reg - 27 Degs at 8.7