Guest Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 haven't we out smarted ourselves? I was thinking the other day what happened to the Admirals, Southern Cross, Kenwood, ... Cups sure IOR changed but is that a reason for theses events dying out? Then I a asked myself what happened to classes like the Farr 40, the ton cups, J24's, Etchells... sure there are recessions... but if recessions are not killing of classes that are popular than ever, have huge world fleets, and are not dieing of... such as... OK dingy Flying fifteen Olympic classes ( For obvious reasons)... paper Tiger mini 650 laser 505 What keeps certain classes going? Is it technology, strong class governance, COST (cheaper is better), good class sponsors, boat/design appeal, class history??? Why are major international regatta's all but dead? What do people say... Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 What happened?? Greed, Power, Sex, Money . . . just the normal stuff IMHO: My boat is faster than yours developed from the explorers, fishing boats getting back first to the markets through to tea clippers and the original Cowes regatta and the first America's victory in the Around the Isle of Wright Yacht Regatta Race as observed by Queen Victoria. The RYS (Royal Yacht Squadron) started using a few simple length and sail area calculations after losing, to help improve the English sailing fleet. This was OK at first and often handicaps were of a fixed time basis / distance calculated adjustments. Strangely it was unfair to all but the winners. So RORC (Royal Ocean Racing Club) made a "BETTER" rating system to allow for different sized (normall full keel traditional fishing smacks / cruising) boats and at a guess / memory had about 35 measurements. The first ever RORC measured yacht was MAVIS and was keenly raced by Robin Coleman(?) with RAYC in the late 60's, 70, 71, 72. Robin was a polio victum and struggle walking ashore, but was very muscular in his top half. Then a better system way needed to cope with all the new post war designs. John Illingworth (who founded / encouraged the first Sydnet 2 Hobart; wrote "Offshore" & "Further Offshore" great books on designs, rigs etc); S&S and others designed fin keels, faster shapes etc. So now the RORC rule was unfair to all but the winners. Meanwhile the Americans developed their own systems, with different aspects featured or penalised to the UK system, depending upon which side of the Atlantic you were anchored. So what was needed was a universal applicable International Offshore Racing IOR = originally a good system to compare different boats of different sizes, designs etc to race competitively against one another. So for existing boats it worked well. Then new faster boats developed and exploited loopholes in the Rules. Yes I was in on that two and one half tonner we got to finally measure just inside the upper limit by shaving 1/4" off the propeller tips. Fair enough. Racing was against other similar boats. Then the Kiwi designers weat away from the pinched in IOR sterns that developed from double ended fishing smacks of old. The kiwis developed wide open boats with big flat transoms for fast sailing and also easier access when cruising with the dinghy / kids etc. Our better weather meant warmer sunnier boating was our normal mode. The UK/ North European / New England has colder weather and no winter sailing and keeping warmth inside and rain out is their priority. So the IOR designs became slow to really slow, plus downwind they rolled to beam ends and beyond. See my helming in the classic Beken photo of Red Lancer, C&C39 at Cowes week. I had to push the main boom over to starboard whilst steering!! The cheating arrived, with people hiding lead weights up masts to adjust the IOR Inclining tests so their boats became more tippy, a step towards more unstable yachts. So the IOR was not for the Canadians and Americams who wanted the ORC versions. Further the Americans had east / lakes / west coast differences of opinion and measurements or formulae. I forget the exact details. So a new better system was considered and if we keep the formulae secret, the the previous exploitation of formulae will not happen . . . so IRC is now behind closed doors. For their eyes only!! We will only give out a final answer. As will all developments, costs increased at every stage. It's a pity that Admirals, Kenwood, etc races have fallen away. Also the Round the World racing have been a new focus and Austraila and then NZ won the Americas Cup. It's just knot fair said the northern hemisphere sailors whilst crying into their drinks, Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 What?? A message appeared: I can no longer edit my posts. I was trying to fix a few spelling errors as my spelling and grammar checker is not working also. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Cheque books and bureaucracy. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 What keeps certain classes going? Is it technology, strong class governance, COST (cheaper is better), good class sponsors, boat/design appeal, class history... For the Paper Tiger? "..strong class governance, COST (cheaper is better), good class sponsors, boat/design appeal, class history..." ...and a wee bit of technology, but not so much that costs get out of control. Add to that; camaraderie, sharing of ideas, older boats can still be competitive, an active class association, a good regatta programme..... ......and they're great boats to sail! Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 So the IOR designs became slow to really slow, plus downwind they rolled to beam ends and beyond. See my helming in the classic Beken photo of Red Lancer, C&C39 at Cowes week. I had to push the main boom over to starboard whilst steering!! Interesting Photo, all under control Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 as life is more exciting at home nowadays more people can fight boredom without having to spend a long day getting wet and cold Link to post Share on other sites
philstar 61 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Lack of owner / builder mentality these days, increasing costs, lots of other recreation choices. People don't seem to be happy with less these days. When I was a nipper I remember our family of 4 used to cruise on a hartley 18. Fleets are down in keel boats and dinghys. From a dinghy perspective the fleets change as the local demogrphic changes. 5 years ago we had a strong laser fleet at manly sponsered by a group of dads who were getting the early teen kids into sailing. Now these kids have grown up and the dads are sailing for them selves or doing other things. we now have a fleet of zephyrs and hobie 16's. we're surviving by embracing fleets and new boats. We have to get people sailing and keep em. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I was talking to a guy who was a stalwart of the old farts laser sailing. He's dropping out - said it was too expensive. This guy is not a poor person, but just felt the cost of competing was too much. And this is a laser!! Actually it is interesting talking to the jelly belly laser sailors - a LOT of them are peole who would have moved in to the keel boat fleets in years gone by. Link to post Share on other sites
smithy09 50 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Actually it is interesting talking to the jelly belly laser sailors I'm sure a lot of them have very little jelly under there. Most of them are beer guts, bought and paid for!! Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Interesting Photo, all under control Yes that's me on the helm, out of camera shot though. I think we ended up 2nd or 3rd in that race. Other photos show an even darker squall line. I warned the crew that a few boats were doing great broaches up ahead. One asked "What's broaching " My reply was "Well you hold on and I can shout out a bit of encouragement to you " I had the crew get the No 4 Jib ready to hoist and had told the crew that whatever happens, we will just let the spinnaker halyard go, gybe back, get sail onboard and then hoist the headsail. The only damage was a "slightly" bent spinnaker pole when it hit the water. Luckily we had twin poles. Swapped the ends over to a new pole that evening, all ready for the next day's racing. We had an American onboard, the young fellow down aft, who had hung his wet weather pants up to dry on the pushpit. The buzz word for everything from him was "dynamite". I told him he would loose his pants and he bet me he wouldn't, but sure enough he did. Beken's camera boat tried to pick them up but they sank too quickly so I had a free meal that night. "Dynamite" paid. Happy to autograph your copy Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Actually it is interesting talking to the jelly belly laser sailors I'm sure a lot of them have very little jelly under there. Most of them are beer guts, bought and paid for!! truth is the good ones are fit as all hell, scary seeing some guy in his 70's with a 6 pack doing 100 push ups to get in the mood for a race. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I'm like that. When I try doing my 100 push ups, I feel like 70, say stuff it I'm fit enough and go for a 6 pack. Link to post Share on other sites
Pugwash 0 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Nice one Wheels! Link to post Share on other sites
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