Life Jacket - fines for rowing ashore?

[armchairadmiral 411]

It is stated as a fact that there are drownings from tenders.Please post the details.There might be one or two over the years but from my experience (under the weather or not) travelling about boats and anchorages is safer on a per km travelled than walking along streets.Maybe the plan is to have pedestrians wearing crash helmets,flak jackets and steel capped boots.I'll wager no response from the 'fact' merchants with details?

[Clive 13]

It is stated as a fact that there are drownings from tenders.Please post the details.....

Drop Neil at Coastguard Boating Education an email to find out as I don't think he reads Crew.org.

The more people that complain about CG going along with this daft legislation the better.

 

Here is his email: neil@boatingeducation.org.nz

[grant 40]

I think you will find that "tenders" will fit into the category of small dinghies, where, statistically speaking, the drownings do happen. The thing that makes them a tender is that are being used to get to or from another larger vessel. This probably has implication of where they are being used weather conditions etc, given that most mooring areas are going to be somewhat sheltered and usually close to shore.

 

This makes it hard to split them off in the rules, what's the difference between a small dinghy motoring around an anchorage and an identical one heading out from a boat ramp to go fishing??

[PaulR 3]

, what's the difference between a small dinghy motoring around an anchorage and an identical one heading out from a boat ramp to go fishing??

 

The difference IMHO is that the yacht's tender in an ancillary vessel, not the main or sole means of transport.

 

The people in a tinny (small runabout etc) off for a days fishing have NO OTHER support vessel. This is a big difference. Therefore they are totally reliant upon their sole vessel, hence should all be wearing lifejackets.

 

If they were towing a dinghy, then the circumstances are now QUITE different. IMHO, they could get in that dinghy on the same basis as yachts, without a lifejacket. They could also be towing a windsurfing board or SUPboard.

[PaulR 3]

How many yachties have drowned in the past ten years while going ashore?

 

Do not include deaths from falling off a marina pier as including those stats would mean that the council would be justified in requiring all people going onto a pier or wharf to wear a life jacket.

 

Imagine everyone going to board a ferry having to wear a life jacket as they might fall into the water.

 

Perhaps we should get the council to provide lifejackets for people walking on the proposed boardwalk at Westhaven. After all in a storm, at high tide, on a dark night the morons of society might get swept or blown into the water.

 

We yachties however shall be safe as long as we continue to practice crawing ashore under the influences of rum in fine weather, as all practice is good practice. Hic!!

 

Some of those westhaven piers are awfully wobbly and some even jump over wakes. Luckly those light posts are solid and one can hang on at times.

 

That's sound reasoning and I am sticking to it :!:

Cheers

[grant 40]

, what's the difference between a small dinghy motoring around an anchorage and an identical one heading out from a boat ramp to go fishing??

 

The difference IMHO is that the yacht's tender in an ancillary vessel, not the main or sole means of transport.

 

The people in a tinny (small runabout etc) off for a days fishing have NO OTHER support vessel. This is a big difference. Therefore they are totally reliant upon their sole vessel, hence should all be wearing lifejackets.

 

If they were towing a dinghy, then the circumstances are now QUITE different. IMHO, they could get in that dinghy on the same basis as yachts, without a lifejacket. They could also be towing a windsurfing board or SUPboard.

 

 

If you are travelling to or from shore , with no one the yacht (or launch) that you are tender to, how are you any different from the similar sized dinghy heading off fishing? Effectively you also have no other support vessel? I agree that if the larger vessel is able to assist you you are then not totally reliant on the tender, but how often is that the case?

[PaulR 3]

A reply from coastguard.

They are for the mandatory wearing of lifejackets.

 

Hi Clive,

 

. . . various exclusions, I think it all then becomes too complicated. Better to have a simple straight forward law - that everyone knows and that will be easy to advertise/promote awareness of. I'm comfortable we can rely on harbour master staff not to be issuing infringement fines to boaties rowing ashore a short distance on calm sunny days in sheltered bays.

 

Kind regards,

 

Neil.

Neil Murray | General Manager

Coastguard Boating Education

 

The law is already complicated as it is. Nobody takes any steps to simplify it, lest of politicians.

 

The "Law is an ass" is a common expression among lawyers, and stable hands.

 

I am NOT COMFORTABLE with relying upon the good common sense of police and the courts.

They will all hide behind the absolute wording of each clause in a statute, no matter how sensible the defendants actions were.

 

This of course does not include the legal errors, police evidence issues, guilty until proven innocent or was that meant to be the other way round ; legal pardons etc.

 

The law cannot make anything safe. Only intelligent, thinking people can.

 

Perhaps if there were more drownings, the gene pool would improve, without the need for more laws. What a cost saving!! = Lower taxes = new Tui billboard near you.

 

Off course that does not apply to commercial people who must provide appropriate equipment and personnel etc.

 

So if the equipment is not provided by recreational boat owners, then they are absolutely guilty.

 

Wearing said safety equipment should be OPTIONAL, like safe sex, applicable to those legally over 16.

[PaulR 3]

If you are travelling to or from shore , with no one the yacht (or launch) that you are tender to, how are you any different from the similar sized dinghy heading off fishing? Effectively you also have no other support vessel? I agree that if the larger vessel is able to assist you you are then not totally reliant on the tender, but how often is that the case?

 

It looks very similar I agree, but what is the "INTENT", the legal "mens rea" (Spelling?).

 

I suggest the intent is NOT to venture too far,

to go where no man has been before,

to the edges of the world where there be dragons and sea monsters.

 

Going out for a fishing trip for a few hours or the day has a major difference of "INTENT" when compared to 5 minutes going ashore in a calm bay.

 

Now on a rough and wild anchorage, I'll be the first to wear my inflatable lifejacket over my wet weather gear, plus I will have my tether, crotch strap, self igniting light and I also have a pair of swimming goggles and a divers 2m+ Orange Rescue blow up tube. It is all together already and I have worn it many times (SIMRADS, Coastals, at night etc).

 

INTENT is a complex legal issue, but at the crux of all statutes.

 

Are you planning to overthrow the government Terrorism is one way, gunpowder another or are you just going to vote

 

Sorry for thread hijack / rant etc.

[grant 40]

that didn't sound like a rant, quite reasonable considering some of the discussion I've seen.

 

Something I will look at is whether mere bylaws (the H28 of the legislative world, i guess) can consider intent when being written, not something I have come across so to date. I guess the classic situation of mens rea is the manslaughter vs murder, however that is at a conviction stage rather then rule writing. I can imagine the legal types wouldn't like it, so it can't be all bad.

[Guest]

Hi, also a long term boatie, also a volunteer for a coastguard search unit.....

 

You should probably be asking these questions to government bodies they are the ones making the rules, also don't forget if it wasn't for dumb asses that can't drive properly etc etc, we would already have a lot less laws than we do now.

 

Personally I think it should be skipper discretion, but there are some pretty dumb skippers out there too, so unless you want to go down the compulsory licensing/ education path, what are we to do.

 

also one parting shot, even the best have bad days, when simple things go wrong, I wear my vest most of the time when boating, unless for instance I intent jumping off for a swim....

 

Agree on all accounts!! (great entertainment watching "company directors" playing chicken with a gin palace versus Sealink at 1/2moon bay from our aft deck.. all to impress their martini swelling female guests!!..).

Point taken! We have drivers licenses to operate a motor vehicle on our roads and within minutes of leaving home... you will be wondering which woolworths they get them from!! Our road abidance has suffered big time through amalgamation of MOT and Police and that's nothing new on the water. We live in a nanny state, a Govt that fast tracks legislation due to public opinion so maybe a gin palace fully equipped with inebriated scantly clad (OK its now winter!!) blond bimbo's taking on Sealink by sailing BETWEEN the two on coming "boats" might trigger the usual soapbox Campbell Live grandstanding politician who will "get tough" on offenders!

The buck stops with the skipper. Education is the answer but how many think they are already well educated enough to take out a vessel under 300 tonnes without any qualifications at all?

[SloopJohnB 322]

Lucky these guys are not rowing.

[Guest]

Lucky these guys are not rowing.

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Ive heard of those!!! Sailing spar baths!!

[Guest]

Feeding the crew cabbage AND baked beans!!???

[Guest]

Just Wondering what are our legal obligations as far as a harbour master.Do we have to supply him my name and address etc

[grant 40]

Just Wondering what are our legal obligations as far as a harbour master.Do we have to supply him my name and address etc

 

Short answer yes,

 

longer answer is; upon ID identifying themselves as a duly appointed officer they may be able to :

 

From the Local Government Act 1974

 

650EHarbourmasters and others may regulate some navigation activities

(1)A harbourmaster of a regional council may, in the interests of navigation safety, do all or any of the following things in relation to any waters within the council's region:

(a)require the person appearing to be in charge of any ship or seaplane to stop, and to give his or her name and address, on being requested to do so by the harbourmaster:

(b)require any person found committing an offence against the council's navigation bylaws to give his or her name and address:

©on informing the owner of a ship or seaplane of an alleged offence against the council's navigation bylaws, and on requesting the owner to do so, require the owner to give all information in the owner's possession or obtainable by the owner which may lead to the identification of the person by whom the offence is alleged to have been committed:

(d)regulate and control the traffic and navigation, and provide specially for the direct and personal control of that traffic, on any day or occasion of unusual or extraordinary traffic.

(2)A person authorised by the council, or any constable acting on the request of the harbourmaster or such an authorised person, who—

(a)has received a complaint that there has been a breach of any of the council's navigation bylaws; and

(b)on investigation of the complaint, is of the opinion that there has been a breach of the council's navigation bylaws,—

may exercise any power under subsection (1)(a) to ©.

(3)If a harbourmaster or enforcement officer of a regional council believes on reasonable grounds that a person has committed a breach of maritime rules involving navigation safety, the harbourmaster or enforcement officer may exercise any power under subsection (1)(a) to ©, and those provisions apply with any necessary modifications.

(4)No honorary enforcement officer may exercise any power under subsection (1)© or (d).

 

and

 

650CGeneral powers of harbourmasters and enforcement officers

(1)A harbourmaster or enforcement officer of a regional council may at any time, for the purposes of carrying out his or her duty, enter and remain on any ship in waters within the council's region.

(2)A harbourmaster or an enforcement officer (together with such assistants and equipment as are considered necessary) may enter and remain on any maritime facility, or on any land or property of a port company or other operator of a port facility, within the region of the council that appointed the harbourmaster for the purposes of carrying out his or her functions.

(3)For the purpose of ensuring navigation safety, a harbourmaster or enforcement officer may give directions regulating—

(a)the time and manner in which any ship may enter into, depart from, lie, or navigate in those waters:

(b)the position, mooring, unmooring, placing, removing, securing, or unsecuring of any ship within those waters:

©the manner in which any ship within those waters, or at any maritime facility, may take in or discharge its cargo or any part of its cargo, and the manner in which cargo is secured or is being handled on a ship where there is a risk of cargo falling overboard and becoming a hazard to navigation.