Zozza 293 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Partisan, We use 4 T105's house batteries and 1 x 12v lead acid starting battery, Charged by 50amp alternator via splitter diode and 75watt solar panel. We don't have refrigeration, electric windlass etc. do have SSB, VHF, Radar, GPS, lap top etc etc. did have incandesant nav lights, (now they have led bulbs) and fluorescent interior lights. We never ran the motor just to charge the batteries.We went 4 months NZ,Tonga, Fiji, NZ keeping the batteries full was never an issue. G'day Steve. Well that give's me some confidence. Did you have to use the motor at all to charge your batteries? My auxiliary is an outboard, so I will be relying solely on solar, as it were. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Farrari 4 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think this has been said before but with the LiFePO4 batteries you ought to use a specifically designed charging controller that will maximise the life of the expensive batteries. Your standard lead acid battery (and derivatives) smart charger will detect battery state on battery voltage. They will then apply a phased charge of boost, charge and float typically at 14.6V, 14.4V and 13.8V respectively. A LiFePO4 battery charge controller should charge based on constant current. Every battery manufacturer is slightly different but typically this is 0.5C where C denotes the AH capacity of the battery. i.e. 120AH = 60Amps max current. The article referenced below explains this a lot clearer than I can. http://www.myelifenow.com/2012/10/lifepo4-charging-method-dont-ruin-your.html A LiFePO4 Charger charges at Constant Current, then close to the pack voltage, switches to Constant Voltage and reduces Current slowly until it reaches the set pack voltage, and eventually Shuts Down Completely) This means if you want to replace your lead acid batteries with LiFePO4 you really need to install a fit for purpose smart controller that can handle all the charging sources whether that be solar, outboard generator/alternator or external genset. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Partisan, Whenever we used the motor for propulsion it charged the batteries, but we never needed to use it specifically for battery charging. The solar panel was bolted horizontally to the top of the radar arch, so it wasn't always in an optimum position, but was definitely sufficient. We relied solely on the Solar panel for both NZ / Tonga, 12 days/ and South Fiji / NZ, 10 days. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Too Tall is correct that it is good practice not to discharge any battery too far. Even the LiFePo batteries should not be discharged to below 2.7V per cell and at 2V per cell, you can damage the cells. And yes they need a special charger and I am not sure if a Solar/Wind Charge controller is available, although with these batteries starting to be used in APS's, I would expect that one must be available from somewhere. 5000 cycles may be a bit of a stretch. 3000 is closer and some only get 2000 cycles, but when you consider that FLA is about 500-800cycles, the LiFePo has a really big advantage. KM, how are you going to sneak $5K of Battery system past the Admiral? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 KM, how are you going to sneak $5K of Battery system past the Admiral? No need to sneak, she'll do as she's told or bloody else!!! .......... quick glance over the shoulder..... yeap I'm safe Knot really sure but I think work needs a 'flux capacitor with a linear transmogrified inverting diddlybop'. "Oh it's just a wizz gizmo that makes errr... umm... splicing those 40mm rope a lot easier, my Petal of the Pacific" That lifepo someone linked to earlier on TMe was $1900 odd was 200amp but did you notice it had a 10 year warranttee. Someone's pretty sure they are good shite. Size was bloody good as well. Weight... errrrr a battery will never be flash by 23kg didn't seem that bad. It sits dead smack on top of the keel so it's in the best spot possible. 2K is up there for sure but if it's that flash we're back to lifetime cost and reliability, which it seems to stack up well on. The charging comments I'm knot enjoying though. Assuming I go lifepo any further ideas on charging considering the inputs I have? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pierre at AAsolar should be able to answer your questions KM. Probably supply the whole kit. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 2K is up there for sure but if it's that flash we're back to lifetime cost and reliability, which it seems to stack up well on. Consider to spend a bit more on charger. It's a big initial outlay, but works out cheaper over the lifetime. Make sure (which I know you will) that you ask just what and how exactly the warranty covers?? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I hear lots of good things about that AA Solar, lots. I'll pop up for a visit, they are only 5 min up the road. I'll let you know what he says. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 KM I understand he won't sell you the battery without the charger. They (lithium batts in general, knot his in particular) have had issues with fires - you will note couriers won't take them now, and need a declaration that electronics don't contain lithium batts. Now Dangerous goods!! Re the issues with the Boeing dream-liner fires... Do it once, do it right, and you should be fine. My 210 amp/hr 12v batts are 75KG - EACH!! Only one possible question mark I have with AA solar - he would not tell my brother actually what brand the batts were.... Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 10 year warrant is really good, but are you going to still have her then? (I mean the boat ,not management) Those batteries that seem to be catching fire on the dreamliners are lithium ones, aren't they? Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Yep, lithium. lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO 4) battery - that's what KM is considering... Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 No the Dreamliner uses a LiCoO2 design. The LiFePo is a far less Volatile beast. Why Boeing are not using the later, I am not sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Thanks Wheels, at this stage lithium is lithium to me! Thanks for the correction Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Speaking of Batteries, my Wife would like to thank all you taxpayers for her quick jaunt to Auckland and back today. A wonderful little side track from normal work and all over a little Lithium Battery. The entire fleet (3) of Seasprite Helicopters were grounded this week. The Batteries in the EPIRB's on board expired. They didn't have any spare. There was a spare down here at Woodbourne. Don't ask me why when the Seasprites are in Auckland, but. So someone wearing a Uniform with lots of flashy bits on it, decided they had to have that battery in Auckland ASAP. So Major Flashy Uniform shouts an order and people run around like headless chook's trying to work out how to get the battery to Auckland. Someone tries to call Dawn on her Cllph late Wednesday evening. But Dawn was out at a BBQ. I heard the call and thought, must tell Dawn her ph rang. So promptly, late Thursday afternoon, I remember to tell the wife and she checks the ph. Oooh, it was an urgent call from Auckland. Strange, why didn't they go through the proper protocol of getting hold of someone on Base. They have proper protocol you know. So Dawn arrives to work today to a fluster of we have to get this battery to Auckland, quick get it on an urgent Courier for the next available flight to up. Dawn replies, can't do that because it is considered Dangerous Goods. But it is a little battery and no different to a laptop battery and they can go on Planes said her Superior Shiny Suit fellow. Yes but it's classed as dangerous goods. Don't blame me for stupid classifications. What the issues is being DG, is that none of the Aircraft that fly out of Blenheim can carry anything classified as DG as Freight. It would mean the battery would have to be driven to CHCH to go on a big plane flight to Auckland. The Suits with the shiny things on discussed and decided that was going to take too long. So Dawn said, well don't ask me why, but a Passenger is allowed to take the battery ( still classified as Dangerous Goods) with them on the small Plane flight as carry on luggage, with no questions, no paper work, nothing, just walk on. Knowledgeable Girl my Wifey. So they said, well what are you standing around for, get on the very next plane with the battery. She flew to Auckland with it, arrived to no one waiting for her, so Called Base and said, well I'm here where the heck is someone? Someone arrived and grabbed the battery from her and she was on the next flight home again just 20mins after arriving. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ever watch F troop? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 KM I understand he won't sell you the battery without the charger. They (lithium batts in general, knot his in particular) have had issues with fires - you will note couriers won't take them now, and need a declaration that electronics don't contain lithium batts. Now Dangerous goods!! Re the issues with the Boeing dream-liner fires...Apart from lovin the way you fellas are liking my old shitter to a Dreamliner, must be the speed match I reckon I'd make sure it got a 'system' rather than bits and bobs clipped togeather. It is an important bit of a boats set-up Do it once, do it right, and you should be fine. My 210 amp/hr 12v batts are 75KG - EACH!! 75kg each?? Holy SInk my little fella Batman Only one possible question mark I have with AA solar - he would not tell my brother actually what brand the batts were.... that's Becoming sadly way too quite common in the marine industry due to either staff just knot knowing the products they are dealing with or with some intentionally 'fudging' and in some cases bare faced blatantly misleading the customers. Turning the mocked up galley into a real one today. A spot of lunch now then a RNI start to suss then back to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Farrari 4 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 A quick search on Alibaba finds LiFePO4 car / motorbike replacement batteries with inbuilt BMS. An interesting combination. Who knows how reliable these would be but I like the concept of a drop in replacement for a lead acid battery. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1564634927/12v_120ah_rechargeable_battery_12v_lifepo4.html Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Now there is a Trap for young players. If you look at those batteries, they are advertised using the big print as 12V 120Ahr. But if you read the specs in the smaller print, it is only a 20Ahr Battery. What they have done is taken the Total Ahr's the thing can hold if you could flattened it to dead flat, which you can't, because the Cutoff Voltage is set to 9.2V, so you can only get a usable 20Ahr from it. Link to post Share on other sites
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