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Survey for Insurance

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So I finally had to get an out of water survey/boat builder inspection for my insurance company.  No real issues except for not having a gas compliance certificate.

That is not really a surprise as the boat has not had any gas work done on it any time recently.  However I now need to either shift my gas locker, modify the existing gas locker or remove the LPG.

Even though the existing gas locker is outside, has significant venting it does not meet the current requirements.  Rather than putting another hole in the hull to provide a lower venting point and redesigning and sealing the locker I am getting it moved to a stern locker that already has a vent etc.

I had already had the gas fitter down to look and recommend a solution as I figured this day would come.

Of interest is that the insurance company has basically said I don't have any insurance until fixed.  30 years old boat, no problems to date, assessed as in great condition.  They said this the day they received the report.  My broker is clarifying this as it seems OTT.  I have also pointed out that I cant get the guy to fix it until we move back from Alert 4.

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Get another inspector. The rules are NOT retrospective, it has to comply with the rules as they were when the gas was fitted. Unless you are having new work done, then it must be upgraded. 

see https://shop.standards.govt.nz/catalog/5601.2:2013(AS|NZS)/scope

page 4, about 1/2 way down - regulation is NOT retrospective.

 

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1 hour ago, Island Time said:

Get another inspector. The rules are NOT retrospective, it has to comply with the rules as they were when the gas was fitted. Unless you are having new work done, then it must be upgraded. 

see https://shop.standards.govt.nz/catalog/5601.2:2013(AS|NZS)/scope

page 4, about 1/2 way down - regulation is NOT retrospective.

 

just to clarify this subject a bit more, if you are having work done on an existing installation then  only the work performed must comply with the current regs. It does not trigger a requirement to upgrade the complete installation to the new regs. If a Gas Fitter makes this claim ask him to show you where in the regulations this is stated.  Obviously if something is intrinsically unsafe eg a gas locker that does not drain overboard at all, then it will need to be addressed.

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1 hour ago, marinheiro said:

just to clarify this subject a bit more, if you are having work done on an existing installation then  only the work performed must comply with the current regs. It does not trigger a requirement to upgrade the complete installation to the new regs. If a Gas Fitter makes this claim ask him to show you where in the regulations this is stated.  Obviously if something is intrinsically unsafe eg a gas locker that does not drain overboard at all, then it will need to be addressed.

Our marina has required a gas compliance certificate as part of the conditions of use. No issue as we only have a bottle and line to a califont and a stove. Cost obviously. The issue with additions to an existing system is that the while the requirements may not apply to an existing system you may not find a certified gas fitter who will adapt the system as he/she cant certify the bit that connects to the old system. I am sure there will be differences of opinion on this but that is what I have been told, and fits with my reading of the requirements.

I had planned to replace our system anyway as the 40 year old copper piping was, well, 40 years old. When we removed the old piping we found a "repair" where plastic piping had been fitted with jubilee clips, all hidden behind the freezer insulation. Plastic pipe looking well dodgy. So I am glad we did the work.

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Califonts are no longer legal inside a yacht unless of "room sealed" design (not yet seen one of those). So, either yours is outside, or your inspector understands the rules and issued the cert as it complied at the time of install.....

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1 hour ago, Island Time said:

Califonts are no longer legal inside a yacht unless of "room sealed" design (not yet seen one of those). So, either yours is outside, or your inspector understands the rules and issued the cert as it complied at the time of install.....

We discussed the califont at the time as I felt that would be the case however....the califont is fitted in a well ventilated location and has the required 150mm clearance above so fits within the requirements. We replaced all gas pipes and fittings so it is a complete install under the current regs.

 

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Hmm, I don't think that is correct. But from your point of view, like the EWOF, all you need as  a layperson is the COC.

I think (almost certain) that the latest standard requires califonts to be room sealed. I've read it before, but now I cant find where, and it costs $189 to buy the standard to find out for sure... I only have a piece of it I could find online.

Any plumbers on here have a copy and can confirm? I'd like a quote from the regs, peoples word seems too unreliable..

However, what I posted above is from the regs - it's not retrospective.

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Last couple of boats we have had we fitted the gas canister stoves, quite adequate for us and as far as I know don’t need inspections. We would spend less than $50 a year on the canisters at not much more than $1 each. We have an alcohol stove on Oryx but the gas is quicker and cheaper.

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Ok, here is the regulation (thanks Alan!)

2.9.1 Prohibition on installation
Except as provided below, the following appliances and equipment shall not be installed
inside a caravan or boat:
(a) An appliance which is designed to operate on an unregulated gas supply or at a
pressure exceeding 2.75 kPa.
(b) In Australia, a water heater, other than a room-sealed type.
In New Zealand, water heaters other than room-sealed types shall only be installed in
caravans or boats subject to the following requirements:

(i) The input of any flueless water heater shall not exceed 0.4 MJ/h/m3 of room
volume (100 W/m3).
(ii) Flueless water heaters shall not be fitted underneath projecting shelves or
cupboards, nor with a clearance less than 150 mm from side walls, and the flue
terminals shall not be less than 300 mm below ceilings.
23 AS/NZS 5601.2:2013
COPYRIGHT
(iii) Instantaneous water heaters shall not be installed in bedrooms or areas used for
sleeping unless the water heater is of the room-sealed type. There shall be no
ventilation openings or other connections between any area used for sleeping
and any compartment in which an instantaneous water heater is located if the
water heater is not of the room-sealed type.
NOTE: An area used for sleeping includes any combined living/sleeping area.

So you may be fine!

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11 hours ago, Island Time said:

Flueless water heaters shall not be fitted underneath projecting shelves or
cupboards, nor with a clearance less than 150 mm from side walls, and the flue
terminals shall not be less than 300 mm below ceilings.

Thats the measurements I read. I got the 150mm confused with the 300mm.

From my point of view, as an oversees yacht, it would always be difficult to comply with every countries regulations (which is why countries cant impose many requiremnts on foreign vessels) but when it comes to contractual requirements we have no choice but to comply if we wish to use those marinas etc. This is the first time I have ever been asked for a gas certificate, electrical plenty of times, but never gas before.

And it is a tad annoying that you have to pay to be able to look at a standard.

 

enjoy some lazy times. Hope you all have a few projects to get on with if you are not working.

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