What say you anchoring expert folk?

[rigger 47]

The boat KM and I were talking about was required by a surveyor to have 2 x 80-100lb anchors. Unfortunately the anchor stowage requires the crew to stow the anchor in a locker, just deploying the anchor is risky, getting it back into the locker.... Surveyor approved the system.

A larger heavier vessel only required a 28kg anchor.

[Guest]

FWIW - I grew up with the usual 70's/80's mix of CQR and Danforth. The key was always technique. Dig it in, every time. Have owned/used Manson, Delta etc, and now have an Excel on the cruiser. Which is far and away the best I've ever used in 40 odd years of anchoring (NZ, North and South Pacific Islands, Med). But, at the risk of sounding repetitive, it needs to be dug in. KM is right, I think, 80% technique and 20% gear. Only times I've dragged have been due to hurried process and poor technique. Place it carefully on the bottom, back up while paying out, snub it and use horsepower to dig and keep digging....

[Guest]

PS still have a Danforth as a stern anchor - good for lining the boat up nose in to swell. Works a treat.

[Chewing Gum 17]

We used 20kg Rocna on all chain around NZ and it was great, never dragged once unlike the charter boat alongside in Breaksea sound on a CQR which dragged right out of the bay (Third cove in 50knots).

 

Peter Smith said 20kg for local cruising or 25kg for offshore but we have found the Rocna 20 perfect for our 12.6m yacht.

 

In the past when running longlines in strong currents we used tandem fishermans anchors and I would say they are probably 4x more effective than a single anchor.

[Guest]

KM is right, I think,

No need to think, I am

 

I also reckon danforths make great secondaries and recommend them a lot for that. More often than not we say grab a Manson Racer, the alloy ones. Lighter to move in a hurry.

[snippys_dad 0]

This is so funny as all the over seas blogs I read say kiwis great sailers and worst to anchor beside in a storm lol I dont believe a word of it lol

[wheels 543]

Most overseas Boaters, with the exception of the UK sailors, tend to think a Storm is when the wind reaches 20kts and they hunker down. Kiwi sailors think 20kts is an ideal sailing breeze and think maybe they should put in their first reef in case it freshens to 25kts, but lets finish a cuppa first.

[Guest]

Most overseas Boaters, with the exception of the UK sailors, tend to think a Storm is when the wind reaches 20kts and they hunker down. Kiwi sailors think 20kts is an ideal sailing breeze and think maybe they should put in their first reef in case it freshens to 25kts, but lets finish a cuppa first.

 

Brilliant Wheels. Spot on too.

 

A guy I know, who used to be in Wellington but has moved to Auckland, posted on facebook in the weekend words to the effect of "When I lived in Wellington, if it was blowing 35 knots gusting over 40 knots on Friday afternoon I would think 'I wonder if we will be racing tomorrow?'. In Auckland I get an email from the marina suggesting I check my boat."

 

It's all a matter of perspective.

[Pumbaa 9]

Whilst working in Aus, if there was a strong wind warning, which was issued at 20kts all charter activity came to an end, no fishing, no diving no sailing. The reason used was insurance, but I never saw it written anywhere, I think it was a company policy that spread throughout an entire industry. In the UK we'd go in a F7, seek shelter in a F8 and stay at home/harbour/cancel for a F9.

[Island Time 1,239]

Yep, I'd have to agree with this.

Before I went offshore the first time, I lived and sailed in Wellington for many years. I grew up sailing in Cook Strait. Never even heard a "wind warning" Sure, Gale warning, storm warning etc, but no Wind warning.

Then I bought my first keel boat, here in Auckland. The admiral and I came up to collect her (A Raven 26, which we sailed home to Mana), and we heard a "Stong wind Warning" on the VHF. The Admiral said to me "what's that mean?" I had to confess I didn't know! We decided it was because there was some wind! Good day for Sailing!

 

Off we went out to the Barrier. On the way we saw hardly any other boats out, and a coastguard boat asked if we were OK, because it was windy!!

[wheels 543]

I am not sure if this is good or bad , but a lot of American Sailors are dead scared of sailing south of the Pacific Islands to NZ because they are terrified of the Weather.

I used to laugh when I heard many US folk make comments about winds of 25kts and up, thinking our Dingy Sailors, many of them Kids will be out in that thinking it's wonderful.

One thing I came to the conclusion on years back was that because of our Weather, Kiwis made great sailors because of out Weather. For the UK, they made great navigators. Because you really had to navigate in those waters, due to tides around headlands, water running out from Mudbanks for miles, little creeks up to country pubs and the number of Shipping out in the channel. It's a bit of a generalisation I know, but it's not far from the truth.

[Pumbaa 9]

Not to mention the shipping, crossing the entrance to Dover or the traffic separation zones in the channel was like playing Frogger. I can remember as a kid coming back from France in the mid seventies as a ten year old in our home built 1/4 tonner getting caught in the shipping lanes in fog, light winds with the spinnaker up, still going faster than the outboard could have pushed us at about 3kts with fog horns going off all around us and out of the murk the shape of a coaster and its superstructure heeling over as it's turning away. Those were the days when practises like the Hiscocks ideas of heaving to in the English channel for a nap died. We only ever had a bent Danforth and a trailing log on that boat, no vhf or any other means of communication. The only radio was a multiband receiver that we could use as an RDF, sweep the end of the radio at the approximate position of the radio tower until you found the null and there they were, triangulate a couple of these and there you are.

The concept of safety has come a very long way since then.

[Guest]

As I get asked this question a fair bit and just have again I'll answer it here.

 

The question is “What do you thinks the best set up for my boat?'

 

As the question is more common from the sub 30ft fleet we'll use a SR26 as the example boat, being a pretty far representation of that fleet. So the below would be pretty much the same for Y88's, D28's, R930's and boats of that ilk.

 

We'll also assume the boat does race SO THE BELOW WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE MINIMUM END OF THE ANCHOR SYSTEM SPECTRUM.

 

If you don't race then you'd want to extend the chain lengths and maybe go up a size in anchor.

 

If your bigger than 30ft the same YNZ requirements apply but using bigger sized gear. If you are smaller, say a Pied Piper or ¼ tonner size, the same applies but you could go down one size if you like.

 

DON'T FORGET THE ONUS IS ON YOUR TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT GEAR and saying KM said it's OK in the protest room isn't likely to hold much weight I'd expect.

 

What do the YNZ Regs say? Well the latests version say bugger all and suggest you speak to a Classification Society like Lloyds, BV, ABS or one of those to get your gears sized. Don't even bother as if you can afford to do that, and it can cost a lot, they have no interest in the piddly arse boats we sail. If your boat was built by Alloy Yachts then they would. The Regs also say swivels aren't recommended as they are weak but that's not true and in some situations swivel are required but we don't need them for this application. At least YNZ is closer to 2014 than Maritime NZ who still allow commercial boats to use the same anchor warp a Capt James Cook used on the Endeavour, No I'm not kidding. Luckily the commercial users aren't silly enough to follow that bit of MNZ's advice as it's plainly just stupid.

 

So what I'll do is base this on the previous 2 sets of YNZ Safety Regs as they had what is now a good sensible set of requirements. At the time they were marginal but with the improvement in gear and technologies they have come into their own now so we regard them as good sound requirements for a race yacht that also does a splash of cruising.

 

NOTE HERE THAT CLASSES WITH REQUIREMENTS WRITTEN INTO THEIR CLASS RULES MUST ABIDE BY THOSE CLASS RULES. YNZ is more than happy with that and a few classes do have anchor gear minimums. The Y88's recently tweaked theirs and I reckon they are well thought out and about as minimum as they can go anyway. S34's also have their own specifications.

 

What do you need for each Category? - 2 sets of gear for cats 1, 2 and 3 but you only have to carry one for Cats 4 and 5. One set is to be ready for IMMEDIATE use at all times, having to unlash it from the mast base is not immediate. Sitting in a bin under the forward hatch is as long as its the bin that's lashed not the anchoring gear.

 

Lengths – This applies to all boats in all categories -

 

The Primary – A length of chain equal to 'the boats length on deck' and 60mts or rope

The Secondary – A 6mt length of chain and 40mts of rope.

 

If you are a only carrying one set of gear that needs to be the chain off the primary and the rope off the secondary, so I's suggest you just carry your primary gear. You'll be carrying 20mts of rope more then the minimum your allowed but if that tiny weight makes a difference your sailing skills would be in the worlds top 1%. By that I mean if you're like me you'll cock up at least one tack so the weight saving of leaving 20mts of rope off has gone, probably 50 times over.

 

Sizing – For our SR the old Regs call for 8mm but that was back before some yob (a good looking one though ) changed up the game and introduced a lot larger size range to NZ. So today I'd say use a 7mm chain. Don't forget if you think that's too light then go up a size, that's fine but going down one probably isn't that smart, it would save sweet feck all anyway.

 

Warp size go 12mm. You could go 10mm but trying to hang onto that with wet cold hands isn't easy. Again the weigh difference between the 2 is less than a 6 pack.

 

If you are say a Y11, S34 and the like I'd say 8mm chain to 12 or 14mm warp.

 

Just don't forget saving weight is good............ unless you are ona lee shore in 40kts and a busted boom then any weight saving could cost you big time and in a bad bad way. Just ponder that when you make a call on what you want.

 

Anchors. Anchors are part of a 'anchor system' and a anchor on it's lonesome won't hold a Marblehead model yacht let alone anything else, it's just a interesting shaped but of metal. So matching the anchor to your system can save you money and give you a better end result.

 

Primary anchors want to be good all rounders as you never know what you'll have to stick it in. In NZ we have 2 rippers in the Supreme and Excel plus all the next tier down which are also good, just not as good as the first 2. So to get the biggest holding for the least weight you have 2 easily available Australasian made goodies.

 

Secondary anchors tend not to be used too much by us so I suggest a danforth pattern as the place to head. They store well being flat and are very good to OK in the sorts of bottoms most would use them in around NZ's coast. There are a lot of steel ones out there bloody cheap but I'd heavily suggest you suss a Manson Racer. They are a locally made alloy version which is both strong and very well priced. If weight is your target here there is also a alloy version of the Excel or the Fortress which is another alloy danforth pattern. Both those last 2 come apart for easy storage but cost more than a Racer. If you are likely to cruise a lot then we have seen many go with the alloy Excel as that can also be a damn good primary.

 

Connections – generally a simple shackle will do or you can splice the rope direct to the chain. I recommend the secondary to be a spliced thimble and shackled as that way you have a nice 40mt length downstairs for other uses should you need it. A swivel can be fitted if you like but it's almost a why bother if your race leaning, maybe not so if you lean more to the cruising.

 

So there ya go ponder that and see if it floats your boat.

 

Don't forget this is a little generic hence it is well worth the effort for you to make sure what you have or are shopping for complies with the YNZ Regs, which in the latest you can't realyy do but please just use common sense otherwise. As a general rule most NZ boaters get gear that exceeds YNZ Regs anyway so it's more just the hard race only boats they need to be careful.

 

My 930 has 15mts of 7mm Maggi AQUA4 chain splice to 60mts of a polyester 8 braid (that speaks Italian) which is attached to a 4.2kg alloy anchor, a top end one obviously. I've sat thru 50 knots on that while doing 4.3 kts swinging on the arc, the freaking beast sails around while anchored like a mad women on P. It took me 30 mins to dig it out of the Station Bay seabed the next morning, I thought I'd lost the lot. That gear is minimum for my boat but I know it well hence I'm OK with it but it does give you an idea of what a 930 can get away with. The primary always sits in the anchor locker and my secondary can be deployed inside 30 seconds and lives in a cockpit locker.

 

AND DO NOT FORGET NO MATTER WHAT THE YNZ REGS SAY, I SAY OR ANYONE SAYS, IF YOU AREN'T HAPPY WITH YOUR GEAR CHANGE IT. IF THAT MEANS GOING UP A SIZE OR EVEN DOUBLING THE SIZE THEN SO BE IT, DO IT. ANCHORING IS A DARK SCIENCE AND THE BIGGEST VARIABLE ARE THE USERS SO DON'T CUT CORNERS TRYING TO BE SMART. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

 

I hope that makes at least a little sense.

[Island Time 1,239]

Km I'm interested that you used polyester. What are the stretch characteristics of that? I've always used nylon. You might also like to point out the difference between polyester and polyethylene?

[Guest]

No worries IT.

 

Basically Polyester and Nylon are pretty much the same thing except polyester has better abrasion resistance, not much but enough, it also doesn't lose strength when wet* and has a little less stretch at break load, again not much but its there. * That's why Nylon looks stronger on paper as it is when dry but not when it's wet.

 

The major advantage with polyester is it has far superior thermal stability. Ya Whot??? We've all seem ropes that are like wire in stiffness, most being older ropes. That's most likely to be a cheaper nylon as that does harden with age due to low thermal stability. You can buy high TS nylon ropes NZ which will easily out last the cheaper ones (hence my continual 'think lifetime cost can save you coin' comments) but generally only from educated outfits, most for sale is price based with low TS. But as Polyester has real high TS it stays softer a lot longer and isn't as prone to turning wire like.

 

If you have a auto rope to chain anchor winch you're crazy not to use a high TS nylon rope as the cheap one are the most likely to cause grief. Also some Auto R2C winches find polyester a little slippery hence using nylon tends to be the better option. If you have a capstan (drum only like winch) again I'd use polyester.

 

But if you are like me and use a anchor wench not anchor winch I can use polyester without any dramas. I'll often suggest secondariness are best in polyester, if I didn't already above, as they don't usually end up on anchor winches.

 

It's all a little picky to be honest but as we specialise we know this stuff so why not use it to get the best we can, especially on our own boats. My office lady reckons I've spend 7K buying rope just so I can use about $500 worth on my own boat but she's wrong as she doesn't know I've hidden a lot more from her

 

Polypropylene (PP). Cheap and handy but no good as a anchor warp. Too slippery and has huge fibre on fibre friction issues and a low melting point meaning under high cyclic loadings it will melt, usually from the inside out meaning you have no idea until after it's failed. That's why if you use it on your mooring or anchoring gear you'll be called a loonie. OK in small tinnys but not bigger more serious boats. It's a great handy rope to have in your garage but I can't think of any good reason to have any on your yacht except for maybe the dingy painter and very lightweight kite sheets. You can by a double braid made of it fore that use, which is actually a rope I designed to use as my Frostbite main sheet as the polyester held too much water.

 

Polyethylene (PE) or as the Aussies called it 'Silver'. Total crap and about the most high tech use I can think of is tieing rubbish onto your trailer. Just don't go there. We regard polyprop as nasty and polyethylene as it's more evil cousin.

 

I hope that makes sense, say if any doesn't.

 

AND AGAIN IT'S ALL A LITTLE GENERIC SO REMEMBER ITS JUST A BRIEF OVER VIEW SO THERE IS A BIT MORE TO IT AND THERE WILL BE EXCEPTIONS.

[Guest]

Opps it's juts been pointed out I didn't mention anchor size in the post, doh!!!

 

For our SR and boats a few feet either side I'd be thinking a primary of around 7kg if it's a SHHP (Super High Holding Power) approved anchor, of which the Supreme, Excel and Sarca are, the Fortress also but being alloy you'll need to tweak the weight. A little heavier with other anchors, maybe a extra 2kg there abouts. Boats like PP's and so on could use a 7kg a or 15lber in Supreme speak. I'd like to see a 20lb Supreme on a 930 sized boat but they jump from 15 to 25 and I think a 25 is for cruising and too heavy for racing with so you may want to get say a Excel 20lber instead.

 

For the secondary if we assume the Racer I'd say go with a R4 (3.4kg) on the SR to the Y88/R930 area, a R3 (1.5kg) on smaller than a SR. Obviously if you go steel those weights will be higher.

 

This is written by someone a little anal on anchoring gear as that is what keeps you off the rocks when passed out from excessive rumbos or while trying to fix something while racing just off a lee shore. And lets be honest most of us would cock up enough things during a race that getting super anal about cutting that last 2kg out is a little pointless when the far bigger gain would be from not cocking up.

[wheels 543]

Total crap and about the most high tech use I can think of is tieing rubbish onto your trailer.

You have that much faith in it?

Actually that's probably the reason why you see rubbish every 50m on the side of the road from someones trailer on the way to the Refuse station.

[ex Elly 197]

What do you need for each Category? - 2 sets of gear for cats 1, 2 and 3 but you only have to carry one for Cats 4 and 5.

 

Yes, that is true.

Previously Cat 4 was 2 anchors mandatory.

But under the latest rules Cat 4 is one anchor mandatory, but 2 recommended.

 

So now for SSANZ series, Richmond Spring Regatta, Kawau and Te Kouma races, only one anchor required.