What say you anchoring expert folk?

[benny14 6]

Hoax? The real deal? Just another story from the Western Island?

 

[wheels 543]

How far do you think you can swing a Rock tied to the end of a Line? That's about as good. The anchor has been around for a very very long time. It's a very cool idea, but the reason you may never of heard of it is due to it's poor performance. Fantastic performance as a Wing flying out through the water, but poor performance as an anchor. You may also note that all but one or two of those shots was of the anchor towing line of sorts behind it and not Chain. It can not tow chain very well. Even for Line, you have to have the line free on deck so it takes it with as little resistance as possible. The Flukes are very small and so it has little holding power. It's not much good for anything other than very short term monitored anchoring in calm conditions. Hence the Rock being about the same holding power.

[Pumbaa 9]

I've just run the gauntlet of new anchor buying decisions and I was talking about this one with the Old Man, it must have been about 1982 and I saw it at the London boat show. Can you still get them? Or did they even manage to sell one. Either way I'd like to see how it goes with 10mm chain and not a piece of polyprop.

[Guest]

The Flook is old and been around for donkeys. It's a development of what many do when being deployed anyway. It never took off but is still available. The maker was talking to us about them last year but they aren't a real all rounder. It's OK but a soft bottom anchor.

 

Buying a anchor should be an easy task. There is no Chinese made anchor that can out perform any of the names made in developed countries. You'll pay no or next to bugger all more to buy a non chinese made one but will get a far superior product. At the moment the best performing anchors in the world are made in NZ and Aussie. Just watch for marketing bullshit, it's beyond rampant out there and some very dodgy stuff is still happening in an effort to rip you of your bucks.

 

The next one to spin a few heads is this puppy. A 2 or 3 in one deal that you can tandem with at any stage in a second or 3. Cunning idea but will it work? I think so and will be testing some in 2 weeks. If ir works as promised it will be a bit of a game changer I think, especially in the cruising boat fleet.

[sow1ld 2]

Wo if that's real it looks pretty cool

[Guest]

It's real alright. Damn interesting bit of kit so I'm getting more than a little moist at the thought of having a play.

 

The theory is you can deploy and use the smaller forward anchor by itself just as you would any normal anchor. If you want 'more' anchor you can deploy the whole thing in which case you're putting out a tad more than double the weight of the small section plus you're getting all the extra area related grab from the 'bigger' of the 2 anchors.

 

But the most cunning bit is you can deploy the smaller section and then at a chain length you desire you flick a whatsit* in the shank of the larger section which locks the larger section onto the chain at that spot and then that will deploy giving you a inline tandem system.

 

Or so the spiel says.

 

 

* whotsit used as I have no idea what the whotsit is exactly nor what it's called.

 

Oh... I wonder if one of those would count as the 2 anchors you need for the YNZ safety regs?

[rigger 47]

KM I was thinking of doing a piggy back system as an alternative to that anchor we spoke about the other day.

If that thing above works it could be ideal.

 

How many here have rigged a piggyback setup?

[wheels 543]

Piggy back as in Tandem? Yes, but only as a try to see if it worked as well as I was told. I had about 2m of chain between the two. It worked, but I had no real way of testing if it worked better, simply because my Anchor works so well I can never drag the thing anyway. I really need to try it with some means of placing a huge pull on it and having it in a place I can see it working. And then of course, you often start working outside of real world anchoring situations, so it can become difficult. The best would be to be in crystal clear water so you can see them below.

[NevP 0]

Can anyone enlighten me as to any real advantages of this piggy-back tandem design? I would think that if you are contemplating tandem anchoring on a regular basis you probably need to reassess the suitability of your anchoring system.

 

If two anchors in tandem have similar holding power to a single anchor of the same design of twice the weight, why not just have a single larger anchor on the bow in the first place? You would still have the option of adding a second tandem anchor to your system in the very rare occasions when you expect the weather to get really gnarley.

 

The only slight advantage I can see with the piggy-back design is that it is easy to deploy a single light anchor for sheltered 'lunch' stops. I wouldn't trust the single small anchor overnight so then there is the complexity of setting & retrieving the tandem every time anchoring overnight or in less than ideal conditions. As well as with the associated disadvantages of tandems such as needing longer scope, what happens if the wind veers or backs, etc?

 

A bit of informative info that reinforced my thoughts on tandem anchoring here.

[Island Time 1,239]

NevP I agree. I really don't see what all the fuss is about anchoring. A modern anchor, suitably sized, with the appropriate chain/warp works really well. In over 1000 overnights, we have had issues setting maybe three times, and dragged after setting only once. Why complicate the issue - KISS principle !!

[Pumbaa 9]

I had a peek at the anchoring options as I said, lured by the claims of huge holding power never once failed etc etc. I looked at the Spade, the Manson supreme and the Rocna, the other one and the other....At one point the design groups start to all look the same a plough a concave plough or a sand anchor. I've pretty much used Bruce's, CQR's and Danforths all my life and I thought I's buy something exciting that showed the world that I wasn't afraid to step outside of the square. The anchor I replaced was 35lb CQR that didn't fit in the stem head properly and in the end I got a Delta, wow a cqr with out the hinge yay. I've never had much trouble unless I'm in a spot renowned for bad holding like Airlie Beach with 30knt+ and a ripped up bottom of mud from the thousands of anchors dropped each year there. I know people need to make money but how can a spade anchor made in Tunisia cost $1,300.

[Guest]

Pretty much agree with Nev and IT but at times 2 is better than one. The thing is NZ uses bigger better gear then lots of the world, we have to we anchor on the edge of big oceans. So a lot of what we see is targeted at other areas where they are more delicate and have pretty crap lightweight set up compared to what we use. You want to see how light and NZ inadequate many of the AWB's and US imports arrive with, scary small. Had a new 50fter arrive not long again and it had 30mts of 8mm chain. When questioning the builder on what the winch was they seemed surprised what they supplied wasn't more than enough.

 

So if we get caught we could need more and if we do tandem is a viable option. There is the drama Nev mentions about set up and retrieval a but then if the weather's turned to crap it could be worth the effort.

 

But setting the boat up with a proper system from the get go, which is the norm in NZ, and the need for enhancements is minimised.

 

Just watch some of that Pete Smith stuff, it's not Pete it's Craig his son. A lot is just marketing with a different dress on with only one aim, to sell his anchor. he has some calcs saying anchor buddies are pointless, actual field testing and many experienced world cruisers don't agree. Interesting read but do so with a big dollop of caution.

[Guest]

I know people need to make money but how can a spade anchor made in Tunisia cost $1,300.

They are very labour intensive to make, down to fabricating the shanks. The shanks we had so much trouble with we stepped away from the Spade. When Alain owned the company replacement shanks were supplied free of charge but the new mob don't do that so we ended up with a pile of good heads we pulled the shanks from as replacements. I have some heads and a pile of bent shanks if you want a cheap one, just specify left hand hanging boat or a right and I'll select a bend to suit your needs Besides the Spade clones, Supreme and Rocna and more now, do close to the same job for less coin and more reliability. Of those 2 it's a no brainier, the Supreme is the one to go for.

 

But if you're in Aussie Pumbaa you have 2 of the worlds best being made in Melbourne. The Super Sarca and the Excel. Anchor Right is a bit like Manson they both make world leading products but are a bit crap at marketing unlike Rocna and Lewmar (delta) as two examples. The feedback from the Excel is stunning and the Sarca is arguable the biggest selling anchor in Australasia. As an aside the Sarca is one of the few recreational anchors that crosses over and is used a lot by the work boats and other commercial vessels.

 

As a bit of semi useless info for the day. The rollbars on the Supreme and Rocna are promoted as features. But the only reason they are there is Alian knew one or more NZers would try to copy his design so specifically patented his gear in NZ. The lads here then couldn't copy Alians tip weight construction that both helps the anchor set and makes it orientate itself the right way to set when being deployed. So they had to fit rollbars and get the marketing Dept to talk them up. So far I haven't see on thing that the rollbar is good for except that and carrying it down the dock. When in use a rollbar is only a negative.

[NevP 0]

I can see where you're coming from KM but if the existing set up on a boat is inadequate why upgrade to a system that combines two inadequately spec'ed anchors to make a system that has enough holding power. Why not just a larger anchor?

 

If the windlass (and all the other components of the anchoring system) isn't capable of dealing with the larger anchor then surely it won't be able to cope with the tandem set up either. (Assuming the two anchors will handle the same loads as the single large anchor).

 

And for those very occasional times when even the larger anchor isn't sufficient, dig out the kedge that's stored away safely somewhere off the bow, and connect it up to make a tandem. Requires a little more thought than this design but it's hopefully only needed once in a blue moon.

[wheels 543]

Back in the days before the new Generation of SHP anchors, two anchoring methods were used by Cruisers who were out there doing it and with no place to run or whatever place they could run to, provided not a lot of shelter and they knew a major blow was coming their way. One method was Tandem and the other the Burmudian Moor. Today Cruisers tend to have many more options. Such as having a safe harbor with in easy reach and of course, the major improvement of anchoring systems.

I tried the Tandem idea just so as I knew how to and yadda yadda. I have never ever had to use it in real life.

[Pumbaa 9]

In Airlie we started to drop the danforth in as a matter of routine and then we'd be solid and you could go ashore in confidence. Then you meet some of the regular Aussie East coast cruisers and they all drop two hooks in that bay. Mind you the wind funnels down a valley so there's not much swinging going on.

[John B 106]

Yah, that bermudian moor works real well too.

 

 

particularly good in tight anchorages , when everyone else has the same system. Not so great when other people insist on using that silly string and chain idea though. Bit of a cluster.... then.

[Guest]

I can see where you're coming from KM but if the existing set up on a boat is inadequate why upgrade to a system that combines two inadequately spec'ed anchors to make a system that has enough holding power. Why not just a larger anchor?

 

If the windlass (and all the other components of the anchoring system) isn't capable of dealing with the larger anchor then surely it won't be able to cope with the tandem set up either. (Assuming the two anchors will handle the same loads as the single large anchor).

 

And for those very occasional times when even the larger anchor isn't sufficient, dig out the kedge that's stored away safely somewhere off the bow, and connect it up to make a tandem. Requires a little more thought than this design but it's hopefully only needed once in a blue moon.

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the majority most of which have no or little idea and are supseptible to the masses of bullshit marketting that's infesting the web, much in the form of knowledge bases. People like you who know what they are doing make my life hard by introducing way too much common sense

 

Joking a bit there, only a little though, but I do agree with you. The thing you are missing is there is a growing lack of knowlegde on the water, also as more boats become AWB the gear the are fitted with is bare minimum and come with what the builder can get at the lowest price. My bit was based on that more than specifically at NZ where we do use far superior systems than most countries. You want to see the questions and trouble shooting we have to do for the Aussies. They think 'Silver' is the best rope in the world so have masses of issues. In NZ we don't even use Silver as it's that a low grade total crap, we don't even use it to tie rubbish oin the trailer but in Aussie it's the go to anchor warp for too many. If I saw some on your boat I'd be ring a mental health unit to come and save you from yourself. So if I was going to talk in less then just 'generally speaking' I would split NZ out from lots of the world.

 

But anchoring is bit of a dark art and the biggest issue we see with it is the user, they are horrendoulsy variable in every way. The gear is easy to do but you have to match it to the boat and it's user. In some cases that may mean a 40fter with a state of the art 40kg anchor but in others the same boat could run a 20kg old school and be equally as fine. An indervidual can often see very clearly whats good or bad but that usualy only relates to them on their boat for doing what they do. So as we are not so much dealing with 'gear' we are dealing with 'inderviduals' so as you can well imagine they wobble around a awful lot.

 

I'd go as far as to say anchoring is like shoes. Everyone wants some but not everyone wants the same ones for many assorted reasons that can be good, bad and just feaky werid (and we've had some genuine weridos), so like a shoe salesman we also do have to spend some effort in matching system to the boats, wheere the boats being used, how it's being used and most of all the users thinking.

 

As I've said snice day one (and now being copied and quoted locally and internationally), anchoring is 80% about the 'Feel Good Factor', if you don't have it you don't sleep and if you don't she doesen't and if she dosen't we all know where that leads and it's not pretty. The other 20% is the gear, that bits easy peasy, the 80% isn't though.

 

So while it all may look black and white for many it's far from it.

 

I'd expect a good old school Dannyforth to like Airlie Beach bottoms. In another FYI for the day - in a few spots around the Gulf, like Issy Bay, a Danforth pattern is one of the best options to use, they love the place where some of the latest and grestest can struggle. Hence I commonly mention there is more bullshit being put out by some anchor mobs than there is reality..... but only because it's true

 

The spar idea would be good in shallow water with no waves. Chuck in a big fizz nasty and I'd expect it would get ugly fast. A few years ago I took my mooring barge away for Xmas Hols. Loaded all the crap on and off we went. Got to a bay and I just dropped the spuds so we effectivey became our own marina, it was seriously good as we couldn't move anywhere but up and down with the tide. Was also fun having a HIAB, it made a magnificent 'tree branch' to swing off. The deck space was also rocking especially in big waves, the kids loved hanging onto the lowered HIAB arm while trying not to get washed off

[wheels 543]

I remember a funny site many years ago while anchored in Torrent bay Able Tas. A big Southerly change came through and I think pretty much every other boat in the bay dragged anchor. I stayed solidly put. There is nothing like a large block of Concrete set solid in the middle of a bay to put worried looks on Boaties faces as they drag along at pace.

Mind you, I did drag once up in Auckland. I had Shanson come along side and I tied his Boat up to my Boat and both were hanging off my Anchor. We were yarning and drinking a few cool liquid refreshments and all the time it was slowly getting a little ruffer as time went on. Eventually I though blimey it's getting ruff in here and put my head up to take a look and here we were dragged way out into the middle of a channel a good mile or more from the Bay where the wind was whipping through and really building the waves up. Ooops.

[Black Panther 1,592]

I spent some time this morning trying to get my Manson plough out of the mud (Assassins Cove). Made me like it even more.