Island Time 1,239 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I've just been thinking about this after I was asked a question by a member via PM. How many of you are aware of Canbus wiring in boats? It is a pretty cool system with great flexibility, and normally saves weight and a complex switchboard. Canbus is now used in virtually all cars, areoplanes and superyachts, + a growing number of smaller vessels. Here is a link to one option with some useful descriptions http://www.empirbus.com/page/18/nxtproducts.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beccara 25 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Last time i looked at it there was a pretty big cost involved, The master and switch module was around $4k NZD landed, If it's dropped in price then it's a huge wiring savior Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 BEP do something similar with their CZone system http://www.marinco.com/en/products/czone the Volvo 65's were fitted with these. Really only starts to come into its own on boats bigger than 12m, altho some smaller production powerboats boats in USA fitted with it. Appeals to the production builders because less cable to run and in larger boats certainly a weight and some space saving. Still no cheaper overall For something like KM's project, I expect he will go all LED lighting so can run very light cables, 0.75mm2 is plenty, for those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 OK, basic description. What the canbus does, is provides a system where each device has an address. Effectively this means that you can run a ring type power mains, and any device needed can tap into that. There are no switch on/off cables required, as each device can be switched on/off by its address. Any device can have software controlled switching, and virtual fuses/circuit breakers. This means that if you decide, for example, that a physical switch you have should be changed from one function to another, and it's fuse rating changed, it is just a matter of changing the program settings. No wiring or physical changes to do. It's it great for adding new devices, or replacing old ones. Adding means connecting a module to the bus at the nearest point, and the device to the module. No cabling back to the switchboard etc. Switch types can be changed as well - on/off/momentary on/time delays, intermittent power etc etc . Logic can be applied - if this float switch is triggered, then do this or that etc. Diagnostic systems are built in - reporting includes current drain changes, time on/off etc. If I were doing a boat for myself, it would use one of these systems. It's a form of future-proofing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogan 8 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 .... and your nmea2000 network is essentially a canbus network. It might be possible to piggyback? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 the way you've described that IT - it sounds the shizzle for an open deck catamaran! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 .... and your nmea2000 network is essentially a canbus network. It might be possible to piggyback? Yes, the Empir bus listed above IS NMEA 2000, but allows power draw up to 100A rather than the more normal 3.5A like the B&G electronics have... Raymarine have recently become a global distributor or Empirbus systems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 the way you've described that IT - it sounds the shizzle for an open deck catamaran! Yep, it would be great for that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 But I see two possible problems. If I am understanding this correctly, If something fails in the supply to that Ring Main, then you lose the entire Boats electrical system. Everything! And surly that Ring Main would have to be one large cable, able to handle multiple current draws at a time. On larger Vessels, this could be a couple of Toilets, Pumps, lights etc etc all at the same time.Correct me if I am not understanding this correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Nope, what you say is true. Larger vessels tend to run separate bus rings to different locations. On the Empirbus system the max load is 100A per bus circuit. There are up to 16 circuits on the basic unit. It makes fault finding on the power side pretty easy though. No system is perfect. The different manufactures of this type of system do this a bit differently, but they are basically the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 380 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 OK, so this means that I would only have to run one circuit cable up the the mast and not the 16 different circuits I was going to? Does each node then have a special wireless controller? etc? And what about something like the Opti lamp which has something like 5 wires (3? - I haven't looked for a while), wherein you reverse the polarity to go from prt/stb to anchor (thank gawd for LEDs) I can see how this would work really well for instruments etc. that have simple power on/off and can communicate wirelessly, but for a lighting rig, for example, where there may be many nodes, each requiring a remote controller?, I'm trying to work out what the advantages are. Or I'm simply missing how the system works... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sorry, can't answer that unless a particular manufacturers system is specified. They are all slightly different. Basically though, every device needs an addressing module, and that addressing module controls the device. The optolamp still needs 3 wires for anchor/Tri Colour/Strobe function - not sure how/if the addressing module can do rev polarity - have to read the specific manual for the system chosen. Cabling still has to be run from the address module to the power consumer, just not right back to the switchboard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 when used for signals called multiplexing Multiplexing is a method by which multiple analog message signals or digital data streams are combined into one signal over a shared medium. For the automotive industry, this means reducing wiring while increasing complexity and possibilities, such as better systems control, the share of more information and it facilitates the creation of links between different systems. Multiplexing can also add on to the safety and reliability of your systems. In the automotive industry, CAN communication protocols are now widely used as a standard to communicate between all controllers in a given vehicle. http://www.motabars.co.uk/can.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 380 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Sorry, can't answer that unless a particular manufacturers system is specified. They are all slightly different. Basically though, every device needs an addressing module, and that addressing module controls the device. The optolamp still needs 3 wires for anchor/Tri Colour/Strobe function - not sure how/if the addressing module can do rev polarity - have to read the specific manual for the system chosen. Cabling still has to be run from the address module to the power consumer, just not right back to the switchboard. No worries, seems to make sense. I will look into it more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail Rock 28 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Hmmm, reliability and serviceability? i.e. what happens when the system breaks down, 500 miles offshore and you don't have a PhD in electronics and the spare parts to diagnose and fix it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 As I said, used in virtually every car now, and since about 1996. It is a well proven technology, but like all essential systems, carry a spare mainboard, and a spare device module or two. Anyone can change them with a 15 min lesson. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.