Lithium Ion Batteries

[southernman 73]

Guys,

 

I need to source some Lithium Ion batteries. We are looking at getting them out of the US as the pricing is so much cheaper than the usual robbers here, however has anyone got a good contact or source here for them?  I'm looking for a 12V 300 amp hour battery x 3 off.  

[wheels 543]

Lithium is changing rapidly. We are onto Gen2 Lithium for our kind of systems now and the technology on the near horizon is just amazing. NZ suppliers have not kept up with technology and this is one of the big issues a small market will have. The Gen 2 stuff has over come many of the issues the Gen1 stuff had. It moves so fast. 
Re AA Solar and all those that supply similar products, do your homework and find all the facts. A lot is hidden.
You may well be better going straight to the companies at the forefront of these advances and buying direct.

[Beccara 25]

Lithium is changing rapidly. We are onto Gen2 Lithium for our kind of systems now and the technology on the near horizon is just amazing. NZ suppliers have not kept up with technology and this is one of the big issues a small market will have. The Gen 2 stuff has over come many of the issues the Gen1 stuff had. It moves so fast. 

Re AA Solar and all those that supply similar products, do your homework and find all the facts. A lot is hidden.

You may well be better going straight to the companies at the forefront of these advances and buying direct.

 

Out of interest what is the gen2 stuff you're talking about? I've been head down at work so been out of the battery space for the past 6 months

[ScottiE 174]

Gr8 article MB - half way through and all making sense thus far. I think our biggest issue in NZ is lack of supply.

[wheels 543]

B, as I understand it, but could be wrong, the Gen2 stuff came about due the LiPo's that went nuclear in Aircraft etc. A greater amount of technology has gone into the Electronics and allows faster, yet greater control with charging and discharging and a cycle life as much as 2000 cycles.
However, there are also some big advances in the Lithium department with Lithium Air, which is a fancy way of saying that they use O2 as the oxidizer. This has resulted in a Lithium battery 20% lighter and can be charged/discharged 20% faster.
Some other exciting stuff is using Carbon nano tubes in designs and then there are some real exotic materials and technologies in development as well. A couple will allow recharge/discharge in mere seconds.
But even though there are some big developments in the pipe, the biggest hindrance to Battery technology is the cost of getting it from the science lab to the production line. For instance, Eon Musk has spent the most in Battery development at US$5Billion. And that is for just one battery technology, being Lithium of course. So the Big players that have developed batteries, are being very reluctant to look at advancing further into other materials to try and better what they have already spent huge sums of money on developing. Yet to stay at the forefront, you have to keep moving really fast as the science dudes discover more and more exciting materials and methods to make batteries better.
This link does not cover all the types I have come across, but it is probably the best site on the discussion I have seen.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air

[wheels 543]

By the way, Juice make a Gen2 Lithium and it is available from Enertec. KM, was Enertec one of the companies you were having trouble getting replies back from??
http://www.enertecmarinesystems.com/product/juice-jli-12200g2/

[southernman 73]

These are the US ones I was looking at:  https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/product/12v-300ah-lithium-ion-battery.php

 

They say they freight worldwide.  

 

Thoughts on them?

[Dtwo 157]

Have you spoken to this dude?  He sounds like he knows what he is doing.  Also, a word of caution in today's age - a lot of people I speak to say the same thing - customers in general seem to want it all but are not prepared to pay for it.  These things are expensive, a lot of research needs to be done, but then some folk don't see the point that someone has to pay for that research.

 

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[idlerboat 116]

  NAME PRICE    QTY    TOTAL

12V 300AH LITHIUM ION BATTERY

Item #: SB300

$3,499.99 $10,499.9

 

(sorry I copied your referred information but it dosnt seem to want to come through same as on the web site)  that is three of the batteries you are after.

...Anyway... wow lots of money..

What are using them for ?  Is space and weight a premium ?

At a slightly better Amp hr rate but nearly four times the weight  (and space)...and less than half the price you could do it in AGMs..

There are a few house bank solutions coming on line right now. 

If you can hold off even for a few months you may be surprised at the difference.

Oz is being used as a test market for some pretty solid house stand alone setups. The competition could be fierce..

Elon Musks power wall, produced en mass is stirring things up.

 

One 14 kWh Powerwall battery

$8,000

Supporting hardware

$750

 

 

 

 

This price is straight from their web site for Australian delivery... and thats 14KWh...!!

 

The massive hold over, commercial plants now being sorted for Australian commercial solar sites will pull prices down further.

[idlerboat 116]

...and just for interest...and to illustrate how quickly the wheel is turning with Bat tech,

I was talking to a ryobi sales dude...he said that they are no longer producing Nicad stuff...

That peoples expectation and inability to follow charge regime, meant a switch to liIon2 quick smart was essential..

I think wheels has mentioned some of the emerging techs ...these may happen very quickly.

[Zozza 293]

When I was thinking of going electric outboard for my auxiliary, I looked into getting lithium batteries shipped, and phoned overseas to inquire.  It was a while ago, but the fella on the end of the phone almost started laughing, and said "you realise these are classed as hazardous goods, and require special shipping procedures with lots of red tape, and the cost to an individual will be prohibitive to get it shipped to your country".

 

Things may have changed in the two years or so since that convo.

[Clipper 343]

I'm a bit confused on the cycles versus expected life span.  

 

that is, do you need 4 sets of AGM to get 2000 cycles, or 3 sets to get 15 years (5 years x 3 sets). Is the cost 1163 per battery or set of two batteries?

[wheels 543]

 

And I'm told in environmental terms either. Lead we know isn't crash hot and lithium, while mostly mined at the moment, can be extracted from salt water which many are working on right now.

Depends on how you look at it. Lead is one of the most highly and economically recycled Metals. It does not oxidize easily and has a low melting point. So it has a high rate of return and needs a low energy input.

As for getting Lithium from Sea water? probably the same guys trying to get Gold from Sea Water. It's there, but the cost of energy required outweighs the benefit.

When looking at pure Energy production only, then LA is still the most economical. But that is fast changing and is only due to the cost of covering R&D at the mo. Once companies pay off the Billions of investment and we have competition, the cost of Li will drop dramatically and the new technology is making them more and more efficient.