Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Desperation is setting in. The boat is in France, we are here, and a long hot summer is forecast. We have in mind to resume our sea kayaking interest but not in those dreadful plastic or glass boats produced here - the very fact that they all come with rudders indicates what badly designed kayaks they are. I have built (from Gulliemot plans) the odd long and skinny Greenland style kayak using cedar strip planks over a set of temporary transverse bulkhead type MDF molds, the hull then glassed inside and out and then decked over. The trouble is that cedar is expensive (If you can get it). So, if you set up the molds of which there may be 8-10 in a 5.5 metre kayak, and then you put in extra molds between each one for the sake of rigidity, could you then strip plank the boat using polystyrene strips edge glued with white PVC glue? I appreciate that the hull at this point would be very fragile and would require extreme care when sanding, but once the outside layer of glass is on it should be ok to handle, and with the inside glassed should be fine? Trying to get a couple of cheap poor man's kayaks here by thinking outside the box, so all thoughts welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,675 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Buy real boatbuilding foam - the amount is small so the cost differential not so big and you get the right stuff for stiffness (important in a long skinny hull). Use a hot glue gun to put in place then glass in and out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Thanks BP. I can get hold of a quantity of 6mm MDF. Presumably that could be an option as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I have a copy of "Building your hull with the bead & Cove Foam System, Using core cell foam" by Andre Bilodeau if that helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Would plywood stitch & glue not be OK for a traditional style long kayak? A mate built one that looked amazing. Fairly sure he used temporary bulkheads also. I can't remember how light it was (it was his first attempt at boat building) but it certainly had a classic traditional shape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Thanks for the offer, SJB. I have a similar publication. I remember when my old mate Dave Blundell put the original hull shape together for the Davidson 28. He covered the stringers with many layers of pre-glued wallpaper and then faired her up using plaster of paris. Thats what he took the glass mold off. Low tech is what I'm after and being married to a dutch purse string holder, cheap. And preferably materials sourced from Bumblings which is just down the road. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Hmm, rudders. A good sea Kayak will paddle in a straight line in still water with little/no wind. A rudder is useful when paddling in windy conditions to use for trim, so you don't have to keep correcting with the paddle. I personally dont see an issue with a nice glass or Kevlar sea kayak - I have one - cost $120 slightly unfinished ( no hatch covers or rudder). I made the hatch covers, and bought a rudder and pedal kit from China cheaper than buying the component parts here in NZ. At one time I did a fair bit of paddling, and used to be a NZCA instructor.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I find trailing a rudder akin to towing a bucket although to be fair the only rudder I have experience with were the flat alloy types. Maybe a rudder with an aerofoil section would be better. But, also from experience kayaks with a bit of rocker and a fairly tight curve in the chine will steer well by railing, even in a cross wind. But the main thing I have against rudders is that they are an impediment to rolling which is a good skill to master in a boat with 54cm of beam. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Come on Chris, lots of rocker is more of an impediment to rolling, but neither that nor a rudder will even be noticeable if you have a good roll. Left, right, reverse and hand rolls are good to practice! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Yep, agree. Lots of rocker impedes a roll. A little doesn't make a difference but enables railing so you don't need to drag a rudder all around the ocean. Bear in mind I do not have your experience. I couldn't roll my Breeze, my Quest, my Prion nor my Penguin. But the Guillimot - easy as. And fast. And no need for a rudder. Design is everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,675 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Or go plywood. Check out Chesapeake light craft Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Or go plywood. Check out Chesapeake light craft Rodger that, I built a few Chesapeake 16 kayaks , very fast and relatively inexpensive to build also light if you take care and use Gaboon plywood. Their Shearwater kayaks also have lovely lines although they involve a bit more work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Or go plywood. Check out Chesapeake light craftOn the money there BP.I built C.L.Cs Eastport nesting pram and was very happy with it. And so was the family that bought it when we sold the H28. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Yep, agree. Lots of rocker impedes a roll. A little doesn't make a difference but enables railing so you don't need to drag a rudder all around the ocean. Bear in mind I do not have your experience. I couldn't roll my Breeze, my Quest, my Prion nor my Penguin. But the Guillimot - easy as. And fast. And no need for a rudder. Design is everything. Well Chris, come for a paddle with me sometime over summer and we can fix that!IMO a bulletproof roll is a critical safety issue for any reasonably serious sea kayaker. Nothing wrong with the C.L.Cs. If I changed my kayak, I’d be keen on a real lightweight timber one, the just look great to me.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Well, that was a short-lived venture. I think the Keeper of the Purse is going to decline funding for another build, citing noise, mess, disruption and the fact she thinks i'm too old for another boatbuilding project. Sooò, Current Designs Storm looks like it could be an ok boat? We've been out of the business for a few years so probably local mass produced kayaks have improved over this time. I have the impression that there's not much choice available now in sea kayaks, their being superseded by those sit-on things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madyottie 82 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I'm assuming you've been paddling a bit lately? Having done nothing in close to 20 years I picked up an old Venturer a few months ago. Went paddling on the local lake, and promptly fell out. No deck/skirt so had to swim back, dragging a kayak behind me, much to my kids delight. Way back when, I could happily paddle around in a DR, or K1, so I'm guessing balance, core and reflex/ instinct have gone south somewhat. As for rolling, quite a few serious sea kayakers reckon they would not be able to, as haven't practised it for so long. Make sure your shoulders are ok, I've known of a few dislocations from a high brace. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Paddled a Shearwater a couple of days ago (didn't like it much). That was my first time in a kayak in 12 years, so my thoughts/impressions stated on this thread are somewhat out of date. Concerning production boats, I was back then very much in love with Sisson's Noordkap and out of today's offerings the Barracuda Beachcomber looks an ok boat but at $3300..... But from experience I still very much favour the long skinny low volume rudderless Greenland style kayak and still have my unfeathered Greenland style paddle which, once you get used to its peculiarities is truly awesome. There is a small museum in the Dutch city of Hoorn that has a section devoted to Inuit culture. They have a few kayaks on display there, some dating from the 1700's, and not a rudder to be seen. Take your point about shoulders- at my age flexibility is becoming a bit of an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 have an old wooden sea bear not used for a few years would you like to borrow for a bit? lots of rocker, almost too heavy for old duffers, unlike the barracuda, HUGE alloy rudder.... absolute NZ classic long, wide + stable cedar 1 piece inuit paddle for all day paddling carbon 2 piece wing paddle for keeping up with others Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Rolling is something that needs be practiced from time to time even when you (were once!) good at it. My own rolling is not what it once was, but it's something I practice pretty much every time I paddle - in summer! I try to do 5-10 rolls each time. Flexibility is an issue for us older folk Rolling isn't so much about the paddle, as the hip flick and body position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Thank you for your offer Erice. There are a few Current Designs Storms on offer here and there which may be ok but pretty darned heavy at 29kg. So I will try one out and see how it goes. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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