Bow Thrusters

[Fogg 427]

Sure I do but I can drive and have driven without. And I was tested to ensure I could

 

Yes, exactly you have proven that you can drive without them but you still choose them today.

 

EXACTLY the same anaology here. The OP has proven he can park his boat without a thruster (he's been managing fine for decades) but he wants the added convenience/safety/comfort of a thruster and is prepared to pay for it. He is not an idiot for doing that.

 

Nor are you an idiot for choosing a car with p/s or ABS.

 

QED again.

[Atom Ant 0]

Truth is the ultimate defence, AA. Can't see them being organised enough to bring it to trial, to be honest.

Racetrack by Class, 15th = 930's still in Class (both boats ), 18th = Y88's

 

Feel free to argue with the Data Lord if you like, I've tried and it's bloody hard going just knot embarrassing yourself while doing it let alone winning any discussion, the guy's a bloody machine

 

The defence rests

Oh dear KM, do you think that "better" is only about boatspeed? And your sample is waaaay too small to be statistically significant. No no no no... Really I think you must be tired - you need to do a whole lot better than that! What if for example the measurement included having a cockpit sole without a bloody big lump in it?

[Guest Rocket]

No don't choose the add ons -pretty hard to find a car without all them these days.cars are for towing boats I chose one with an engine big enough to tow and an interior big enough to fit a laser top section in...

 

Back on topic -are people really ok with adding things to make up for a lack of ability or more correctly a lack of training? That is my concern-rather than throwing money at and adding to the complexity of a boat why not get lessons? Surely that is the rational path - a bow thruster on a 40 foot yacht really? Think about resale.Try listing it as an added feature? You would rush to own it wouldn't you?

 

The start of this was a request for thoughts on the idea of installing I think it's a stupid idea.Particularly as it will likely cost $10k or more.

[Guest]

Rocket has rasied another valid point for our OP - resale, I doubt the money spent would be recoverable, possbly the opposite, one more thing to consider.

[L'escale 0]

I have been reading ALL submissions and although been busy with 'Rocket' teaching me how to handle my yacht, including berthing and tacking 'going about' whilst my thruster was turned off - thanks 'Rocket' you are more pleasant in 'real life' than on crew.org (I am told)

When we get together again for a beer I will give you a Rocket for taking the (incorrect) assumption, that because people may have the audacity to be considering or currently own a BT that they have no idea how to handle a boat and therefore need to stay at home.

I (and I suggest Florence?) were happily manouvering various designs of yachts in and out of berths whilst he was just a little 'sparkler'

Rocket (and some others) It is just easier with a BT- it is not that we have no idea what to do - I turn the airconditioning in my car on when it suits me and off when it doesn't -same with my BT - I am not a 'rich dude' but I can afford one and I don't give a stuff about resale value.

Ther you go Rocket with over 1300 posts you are obviously a man who likes the last word - so bring it on

Oh and have a Merry Xmas - even Rocket is welcome to come over for a beer if you see us BOI or Whangaroa during the next month or so.

Nearly forgot - thanks Wheels for posting the water jet thruster, looks great. would have seriously considered that as an option

[rigger 47]

Perhaps, but my wife enjoys low-stress, comfortable sailing and that way we get to use the boat often. Her idea of sailing is being at anchor in a snug bay with a gin and tonic to hand.

It has taken me around 50 years of seafaring in everything from Idle Alongs to Supertankers to realise that she does have a point.

We all march to a different drum and while I may have been more in the in the purist mould when younger, would like to extend my sailing career even further by making sensible use of whatever technology there is to make this happen.

 

Guys take a re-read of the above.

 

To me it looks like there are a number of good reasons for Florence to consider fitting a bowthruster

- reducing stress for wife and himself

- age - perhaps not as fit and agile as once?

- extending time on the water by making life easier / reducing risks

 

Personally I would avoid putting a bowthruster in but Florence has highlighted some damn good reasons for putting one in.

 

Rocket I see your point point about abilities but there comes a time when an extra manouvering aid improves performance and get things done safer and maybe even quicker.

Think of it in some ways like having a newer design of sail made of newer materials that improves the vessels abilities - maybe a square top main...

 

So perhaps we can get this thread to discuss the positives and negatives of bowthrusters and get away from the abilities angle a little and perhaps provide Florence with information that allows better decision making rather than just 'get more practice'.

 

Negatives

- cost

- loss of efficiency

- noise when sailing caused by turbulent flow

- the damn thing breaking down and leading to potential damage if failure occurs at the wrong time

 

Positives

- reduce stress in poor conditions

- less chance of damage in poor conditions

- extending your ability to get in and out of a difficult berth therefore increasing chances to get out on the water

 

Variable

- resale value - some may want it others may not all dependant on the buyer

 

Ok - now does anyone have further recommendations on type, people to fit one, owners of boats with one....

[PaulR 3]

If it makes life (in the full sense including the reduction in shouting and stress levels between spouse and yourself) then yes everything that helps you is good.

 

Personally the link to the "waterjet" system was most interesting and one I would investigate further re costs, engine linkages etc.

 

I like the fact that 4 outlet skin fittings can be easily fitted within an existing yacht.

 

Personally I dislke the concept of a big tunnel in the bow of a 40ft yacht with all resultant water drag / turbulance / installation / seaweed / plastic bags / rubbish damage issues etc.

 

Having skinfittings (preferably ones that close flush with the hull) would be great IMHO in a 40ft yacht, even for a yacht that does a lot of racing. When cruising, leaving the skin fittings "open" ready for use would be a great help in marinas, wharves, pile moorings or even when rafting up.

 

One thought would be to add an extra 1 or 2 outlet points so that a large volume hose is available for washing off mud from anchor & chain. A 50mm water hose would be so so so much better than the 13mm trickle!!

 

Interesting comments about training etc., especially remembering planning for what would happen if it fails.

 

One rule "ALWAYS APPROACH A DOCK AT A SPEED YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO HIT IT WITH" but with your experiencee you already knew that, but others may not.

 

I agree with using a buoy and practise manoevering(? spell checker??), stemming tide & wind etc. especially if the more non-nautical spouse can do it by themselves. A while ago, I helped one older couple at Panmure YBC wharf and gave them back some confidence to do more cruising. Last heard of having upgraded their yacht that they were about to abandon after a disasterous collection / first trip that included running out of fuel, calls for help, towing, collision with refuelling jetty & another moored boat, mooring parting, mooring buoy lifting tackle sinking, grounding, another collision, anchor fouling, second rescue. Yes this was all in one day trip that was meant to be just a simple boat collection voyage.

 

Experience is so easy to find!! but remembering . . .

now that's the real problem.

 

Happy cruising Florence and enjoy a bow thruster, if you ever get a turn to use it

[Guest Rocket]

Personally I hate skin fittings - they sink boats but to each his own - If the discussion had been about a 60foot boat I could get it but not a 40 footer.

 

If you think I am unpleasant post the same question on that other sailing site....

 

As noted above I make no assumptions about competence or niceness - I try to stick to the issue.

[Fogg 427]

I have been reading ALL submissions and although been busy with 'Rocket' teaching me how to handle my yacht, including berthing and tacking 'going about' whilst my thruster was turned off - thanks 'Rocket' you are more pleasant in 'real life' than on crew.org (I am told)

When we get together again for a beer I will give you a Rocket for taking the (incorrect) assumption, that because people may have the audacity to be considering or currently own a BT that they have no idea how to handle a boat and therefore need to stay at home.

I (and I suggest Florence?) were happily manouvering various designs of yachts in and out of berths whilst he was just a little 'sparkler'

Rocket (and some others) It is just easier with a BT- it is not that we have no idea what to do - I turn the airconditioning in my car on when it suits me and off when it doesn't -same with my BT - I am not a 'rich dude' but I can afford one and I don't give a stuff about resale value.

Ther you go Rocket with over 1300 posts you are obviously a man who likes the last word - so bring it on

Oh and have a Merry Xmas - even Rocket is welcome to come over for a beer if you see us BOI or Whangaroa during the next month or so.

Nearly forgot - thanks Wheels for posting the water jet thruster, looks great. would have seriously considered that as an option

 

Agree 100%. Rocket has so lost the plot it's not worth responding to any more. In fact he isn't responding, he's just banging the same old "lessons" drum again and again. Just doesn't get it.

[PaulR 3]

That's why I liked the flush fitting skin fittings for 40ft rather than a bow tunnel. The turbulance factor would be too great for the boat's length.

[PaulR 3]

Personally I hate skin fittings - they sink boats but to each his own

 

Generally only when left "open" after crew leave the yacht.

 

Closed skin fittings generally do knot let too much water in IMHO

[PaulR 3]

It has taken me around 50 years of seafaring in everything from Idle Alongs to Supertankers to realise that she does have a point.

We all march to a different drum and while I may have been more in the in the purist mould when younger, would like to extend my sailing career even further by making sensible use of whatever technology there is to make this happen.

 

So Rocket, Florence does have some experience . . . 50 years.

 

Personally I have never been to sea in large ship, let alone a supertanker.

Have you

[Guest Rocket]

whoa I diagree with you whoaaa heavy heavy heavy

 

Have I been to sea in a supertanker ummm no I don't think so not sure that parking a supertanker has an awful lot to do with parking a 40 foot yacht.

 

Have I been to sea in a large ship - ummm yes I have certainly sat on a large ship at sea again but not sure of the relevance.

 

Here's a novel idea - why dont you focus on the discussion rather than on me - flame the idea rather than the individual. Radical I know - then we could sort of agree to differ like most grown-ups that play together nicely....

 

And if having a whopping 1300 posts makes me a bad person what does that make AC?

[Fogg 427]

Rocket, you think (no said) the OP is an "idiot" for wanting to install a BT on a 40ft yacht. Many of us think you are an idiot for possessing such an opinion.

 

So don't get all sanctimonious about not flaming the poster and sticking to the topic. You started the "idiot" abuse.

 

Just an opinion, btw.

 

The OP has justified his position and many of us understand it, whether or not we'd pursue the same option.

 

Your position is less well justified. Because it is based on a premise of "he must lack boating skills and is therefore underpinning his poor seamanship with toys" kinda argument. Which has kind of been washed away.

 

i.e. it doesn't wash.

[Guest Rocket]

Check again I said the idea was idiotic

 

washed away through time?

 

No-one has come up with an argument or suggestion as to why learning to dock your 40 footer is the wrong approach

[Steve Pope 243]

different strokes for different blokes, nowt wrong with a sailor who maneuvers his vessel without add ons and nowt wrong with a sailor who maneuvers his vessel with an add on (bow thruster) the only difference is should the add on fail, can the skipper still manage to safely maneuver the said vessel and if so wheres the problem?

[Guest]

I'm sorry but 'having 50 years experience' does in no way mean someone is capable. Note here, that doesn't mean everyone with 50 years is incapable, most probably are highly capable and more so than most.

 

Chatting with a very experienced superboat skipper just yesterday and he has bailed out of the game as it is fast becoming rampant with people who have 100's of 'Qualifications' but no actual time on the water handling boats. I personally know a few few with qualifications coming out their ears but I still wouldn't let a few borrow my dingy to row across Lake Pupuke.

 

The examples of people with long time in a game but they are still hopeless, sometimes a danger, are numerous.

 

One rule "ALWAYS APPROACH A DOCK AT A SPEED YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO HIT IT WITH".

Hell yeah. The number we see getting themselves in a the pooh purely due to a knot or 2 too much or no escape plan if something goes bad, is way too many.

[Farrari 4]

I'm with Rigger, lets focus a little more of the OP question rather than all the assumptions of (in)experience being made around the request.

 

I see a couple who are at a time in their lives where they can enjoy their 40 foot yacht and want to continue doing so (and good on them, I hope that is me one day). By the number of days they spend out cruising per year, you have to assume that they have berthed a good number of times. All they asked for was some advise on a bow thruster as a berthing aid on the odd occasion where the conditions warrant it. Perhaps they are not as young and agile as they used to be and holding on to a 10 ton boat in a big crosswind is becoming problematic.

 

What constructive options do they have to minimise the stress of berthing?

Will a bow thruster help in these circumstances?

What are the pros/cons of installing one?

What are the good models out there? What should you stay away from?

 

Let's keep the conversation constructive and useful to the OP.

[PaulR 3]

That's why constructively I was impressed with the waterjet system, and added it was worth more investigation e.g. motor type for hydraulic pump; costs etc.

 

I seemed easier and simplier for a 40ft yacht as per topic.

 

I did knot think I was straying off.

[Farrari 4]

That's why constructively I was impressed with the waterjet system, and added it was worth more investigation e.g. motor type for hydraulic pump; costs etc.

 

Yep, totally agree. It would be interesting to lean more about this option.