Experience required to sail the pacific

[TeMPuS 2]

Hi, I am looking to buy a 44' yacht in the bahamas and sail it home via panama. Plan is to spend a couple of months in Florida getting the boat ready, learning it, shakedown sails around the gulf of mexico etc. Now the crew of 4 all have their day skippers tickets and are confident sailing yachts. Is that enough to get us across the pacific back to New Zealand or are we mad? I know a lot of sailing is about good decision making, knowing what to do when...if we are confident with that do you think we are capable of making a safe passage? Thanks.

[Grinna 2]

Plenty of people have sailed across the Pacific with considerably less experience and fewer clues. Just by virtue of the fact that you've asked the question and thought about it your about 3 steps ahead of some folks. Just remember, when you first think about putting a reef in, DO IT and when you first think about shaking out a reef, go have a cup of tea and then think about doing it.

[Murky 1]

Now the crew of 4 all have their day skippers tickets and are confident sailing yachts.

Personally I would be wanting to weld it altogether with a fifth super-experienced individual - the person with the ability to make up a temporary sextant from pieces of a Weetbix box, splice a new engine belt from his own hair etc.

 

A passage of that length is not the same as a series of day trips laid end-on-end, especially if the weather turns to sh*t, half the crew are incapacitated by seasickness, no-one has had a decent sleep for days, things are starting to break down and there is no marina to pull into to get them fixed.

 

But that's a personal view and Grinna is perfectly right in his observation that there is a constant stream of boats making their way from one place to the next without incident.

[Fish 0]

Plenty of people have made it with less experince, although we probably don't hear about the ones that didn't make it, or had such a horrid time they've never set foot back on a boat again...

 

I'd be more interested in your crew dynamics than experince. Do you know how everyone reacts when they are under pressure, i.e. tired, seasick and shitting themselves? Do you have a clear leadership structure or is it 4 mates trying to run a boat by committee? And do you have the same expectations and objectives?

 

If you're all capable types you will learn how to handle the boat, but a 40foot boat is very small when someone is getting on your tits for 3,000nm

[Guest Rocket]

I agree with the view that a fifth punter with ocean crossing experience would be a really good thing. Call him skipper and let hm float across the two watches...

 

Day skipper tickets as proof of competence terrifies me!!!

[Guest]

Remember that 200 odd boats make the Milk Run every year, the vast majority are crewed by a couple, nearly all those originating from North America (at a guess an easy 30%) are on their first passage of any significance.

Only say half a dozen have any grief getting to NZ, and one or two may die.

You decide .

[Guest]

I agree with Grinna.Its not as if you are going to jump on it and set off.You are going to take time to shake it down and get familiar.

When are we going to hear what you bought and why?

[wheels 543]

Do it.

There are only a couple of things you need to learn.

 

The boat will ALWAYS out sail her crew. (In other words, trust the boat will get you through,

or said in another way)

ALWAYS step up to your life raft.

The Storm will always Pass. (many give up during a storm and want off. What they often don't tend to think about, during the height of a Storm, they usually can not be recued anyway. It is the tail end that people normaly get taken off. If they can hang in there just one more day or two, then things usually calm down again)

The Sea/Weather makes your schedule. (Never be in a hurry to have to leave. Wait for the right weather interval)

Taking Crew is sometimes a neccesary evil and can be called "Sandpaper Ministry". You are living in very close proximity for some very long periods, with other people that may or maynot be the easiest to get along with and you can not just go off on your own anywhere. That is probably the one story I often hear that has been the result of a Trip from hell. The biggest Storm leaves you with a story to tell your Grandkids. The story of a crew memeber that made your trip hell, can easily ruin what could be a fantastic life experience and memories.

And the real biggy

Crusing the Ocean is basically long periods of unending Boredom, punctuated by short intervals of intense Fear.

 

You do not have to be a proffesional or highly experienced sailor. You just need to have the right head on your shoulders and understand "sailing off into the Sunset" is only in the movies, while in reality you do also get the grey sky days out there too. Always be cautious, You are not trying to set any records. So as Grinna says, if you are going to take a Reef out, take your time and contemplate thinking about it some more.

[TeMPuS 2]

thanks for all the input. As per one of the earlier posts, the boat i am looking at is a 44' Kalik. In mast furling main so easy to reef which is a good thing (but also a bad thing in other ways), as said earlier if you are thinking you should have reefed its probably too late. Good ballast to displacement ratio unlike something like a beneteau or bavaria etc...as for the crew we all get along well. It will be myself and partner, her boss which is actually her best friend and another good friend who lived with us for some time.

[Guest]

Photos and regular reports for Crew.org.nz?

[Atom Ant 0]

I would venture to suggest that while in mast furling is convenient, offshore you want a more sure thing, so that in the event of it jamming, you can quickly reef your main in a more conventional manner - back ups for everything is the key. This is from my offshore experience of absolutely zero, but sailing for 45 years and the same principles apply wherever you sail - be prepared. Please feel free to keep in touch and of course we'll be pleased to welcome you if you decide to come this far south!

[wheels 543]

I was thinking similar lines to AA about inboom furling. But I didn't comment because every situation I have heard, has been second hand. I have never heard any ACTUAL event of inboom jamming. So can any of the experienced ones comment re this. And a further question is, what part jams? Because that may give TP an area to inspect and see that is all OK.

[Atom Ant 0]

In mast furling is bloody convenient but relies on a relatively long thin spindle which could bend, jam etc and I'm certainly not knocking it - you just need to have a plan b. The problem being that a plan b for an in mast furling system would be difficult as if it's jammed then I don't know what you'd do next. Especially in a "need to reef" situation. I'd venture to suggest that for offshore you'd be better off getting rid of it and going to a traditional type sail. I.e. slugs and a track, so that reefing becomes a quick and easy event. Also if you need to rig a storm trysail it will be easier too. You don't see many offshore boats with in mast or in boom furling and most cruisers of any experience that I've met, ditch them in favour of something reliable tried and tested.

 

The boat that's perfectly set up for coastal cruising, or island hopping or weekending is not necessarily going to be perfectly set up for offshore. I don't know anything about this particular design, but I'd venture to suggest that if it has in mast furling then it isn't set up for offshore, but most likely nothing that can't be fixed!

[PaulR 3]

A trip of that length is interesting. As others have commented, it can be done.

 

However experience is just that. Knowledge of what can, does and will go wrong.

 

Plan for everthing to go wrong and see what you could then do. All electronics do not like salt water over their workings and there is an adaquate supply freely available.

 

Read the Bailey's 108 days drifting in a liferaft ASAP. Knowledge weighs nothing in a life raft. Forget a fishing line, they recommended steel traces would of been better, from memory.

 

Navigation is the big issue and a lot of the reefs and atolls are low lying and hard to see on a dark cloudy night.

 

Do NOT believe in the pictures in travel brochures sunny clear water and calm bays . . . and light breezes . . .

 

Do NOT believe in lighthouses working . . .

 

Do NOT believe your GPS will work always because possibly you are not on Obama's list to be advised should problems, invasions and peace keeping operations develop in the middle east, Koreas etc.

 

Think and plan in terms of 30+ knots wind, overcast / thick clouds, black nights, heavy rain and squalls and unable to see anything clearly for days and you may not be far wrong. The Tropical Convergence Zone covers a big area.

 

On the other hand it could an absolute dream run, perfect breezes warm and sunny, just like you have won Lotto every weekend for a year . . . . it could happen

 

Good Luck and fair winds.

[TeMPuS 2]

Please feel free to keep in touch and of course we'll be pleased to welcome you if you decide to come this far south!

 

Come this far south? I am a Kiwi and live in Christchurch...and have done my whole life. But yes i will keep in touch, we are looking at making a TV series out of the trip as some of the crew are TV professionals in their professional lives. But there will be a blog for sure...

[Atom Ant 0]

Sorry didn't realise you were a Kiwi - given your first post I assumed you were from the US of A - assumptions eh? The beginnings of the mother of all f*ck ups I believe! Anyway, I presume you have plenty of time to prepare? If it was me I'd do a few offshores with experienced people first.

[Guest]

Bro, just go for it, you'll work it out, prepare well and never stop navigating, the experience of a lifetime whatever happens, my mate has done 500,000nm+, he will tell you he still learning and gaining experience and when he stops learning he will swallow the anchor.

[Guest]

Well I want to vote for the in mast furler.You will love it as a labour saving device.They have proved to be remarkably reliable over the years.Biggest drawback is the lousy performance you get from the flat cut sail.Also you can get lousy shape when reefed but you can get that with the front furler also.There is one bearing at the bottom of the extrusion and a bearing in the halyard swivel.You should investigate their condition.You should experiment to find what halyard tension the furler likes.Biggest chance for a problem is furling when the sail is loaded with wind or when it is luffing violently.

[Guest]

I really think you should stay home you are obviously a dickhead...I've just noticed your second post and the swipe at bene's and bavaria's, with a poxy up yourself attitude like that the sea is no place for you... and if you did need assistance or help or advice from a fellow travellor the chances are above 50% that the person answering your call will be a bene or a bavaria or a jenneau etc.

 

Shame really, the katik is a very nice bluewater boat, Gary Mull dezign of 20 years ago?

 

Pretty similar specs to most cruisers includung Bene's of that vintage, built originally by Hyundai in hong Kong or China then the moulds were moved to belgium I think

[Guest]

I'd be tempted to get some offshore experience aboard for at least the 1st one or 2 big legs. Doesn't have to be a pro skipper or anything flash just someone who's been there done that. They just know what it's like so can be a very settling influence if it goes bad. I've been out there with 1st offshore timers yet experienced boaters and mor3e than a couple have got the wobbles on occasions. Having someone being able to say 'Yeap, we're in for a beating but if we do this, that and the other, all will be fine'. Most find that comforting even if they were probably sweet anyway. Knot being able to see land and only huge waves DOES make people think differently.

 

And DO KNOT assume 'best friends' will be so after 4 days in a storm or when one thinks they are about to die. The boat must have and everyone aboard MUST know there is only one Boss if push comes to shove. Everyone must know and be willing to accept the buck stops with that ONE person and one only. That someone has to be prepared to make the hard calls and take any consequences of them. It may never come to that but having to have a friends committee meeting in a storm could easily kill you all.

 

Also DO KNOT assume that hard working dude will be a hard working dude after a few days at sea. Seen more than a couple of smart handy hard working very experienced but never been offshore boater dudes become nothing more than squab weights over the years.

 

As Paul very correctly points out above, thinking about it and doing it are often very different. Sit 20 knot been offshore and 20 have been offshore in the same room and get them to write down what they are expecting next trip. You will get 2 very different sets of answers.

 

Knot trying to put you off but just saying it's unlikely to be like what you are expecting. Someone who has been there done that can be very handy to even out the peaks and troughs.