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Rules: recrossing the finish line.


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I'm pretty sure the richmond used to have this as a rule... Does it still exist? 

Is it the wrong thing to do? How does committee know rou are not going back to right a wrong?  Or do they just assume? 

 

Thoughts 

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I assume you are asking about crossing back to the course side of the line after finishing to get back to Westhaven?

The RYC instruction is a guideline/request rather than a rule.

There isn't any rule specifically against crossing the line back to the course side, but when you do do it, all the rules of racing apply.  Some finishes out of Westhaven, use an extension from the tower through the ODM all the way to the North Shore - so if there was such a rule then boats could never get back to Westhaven ;-)

If you do need to cross back across the line again you should make sure that you time it when you won't impact or get in the way of any other boats.

Paraphrasing the rrs it goes something like:

A boat is FINISHED when any part of its hull crosses the line; and
A boat is STILL RACING until she has cleared the line; and
A boat that has FINISHED RACING must keep clear of boats that are still racing; and
A boat is still subject to the rules of racing after she has FINISHED RACING

If you are asking about taking a penalty after finishing, then you would cross the finish line three times, twice from the course side, and the committee boat would record the last time you crossed from the course side. 

 

 

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Just seems weird that everyone just recrosses the line when boats still I would have thought staying clear by rounding outside the odm would have benn the cool thing to do.... Anyway just thought there was a rule at some stage 

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Yeah but if you round the ODM you still have to make your way back across the fleet to get to the marina entry. Crossing the line, making your way towards the breakwater and back alongside it probably causes less interference

 

having said that, yeah i never sail back across the line :-)

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No rule. Agree it's not cool.

We always go around the ODM unless of course there's a finish boat and then we usually go around that.

That said I have never noticed boats crossing back over the line in our races. 

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I guess it's just polite to do it then. 

When I sailed p class when I was a little younger the old boy always said never recross the line.... Guess he was just trying to install in me it's the right thing to do in his opinion. 

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12.6 After finishing, boats shall sail clear of the area and avoid deliberately re-crossing or passing back through the finish line. This keeps the finish line clear of obstructions for subsequent finishers and makes it easier for the tower to identify finishers

Here you go, the Richmond SIs

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On 15/05/2023 at 5:16 AM, ynot said:

Just seems weird that everyone just recrosses the line when boats still I would have thought staying clear by rounding outside the odm would have benn the cool thing to do.... Anyway just thought there was a rule at some stage 

Maybe it’s now the epitome of cool to sail straight back into the slower boats ? 

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9 hours ago, ynot said:

So you could protest if someone did recross?... Wonder how many know about this 

It sounds like someone has wronged you terribly on the finish line :) tell us more... 

There is no requirement to sail completely across the finish line. A boat is finished when any part of their hull crosses the line. A boat can clear the finish line by dropping back onto the course side at which point they have finished racing and can start their engine and depart the racing area.

Your boat can only protest a boat that breaks a rule of part 2 or rule 31.

The RYC instruction isn't a rule. It's a request/guideline.  If it was a racing rule they would need to state which rule of part 2 they were changing.

If a boat that has finished racing doesn't keep clear of you. Then you could protest them for a breach of part 2.  But not for actually crossing the line as that is incidental to them not keeping clear of you. 

If a boat intentionally recrossed the line to block the committees view of another boat then the race committee could protest them. But your boat could not protest them. 

If you feel wronged by a boat then you could ask the protest committee to make a finding against Rule 69 for misconduct.

Fwiw

Ryc have some weird instructions.  They also allow you to finish on the North Shore side of the ODM if in your opinion it is unsafe to finish between the tower and the ODM. Eg because another race is starting. 

They also allow you to run your engine if you are OCS so long as you motor all the way to the central span of the bridge and then start sailing from there.

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No wrongs done to me as in not out much enough (work gets in the way) but when I have been out over the last 25 years of sailing in auckland I have seen it a lot and going back to what I was imprinted with when very young (albeit probably wrong) and in the absence of not really looking at the rules I guess I believed it to be a rule. 

Is the club that adds bits to the sailing instructions combined with a rule # plus an addition like . 2 or. 3 making a rule or a suggestion when combined with a rule that exists already. 

Is it supposed to be enforceable or is it just a suggestion... If so then should it be even quoted with a rule attached? 

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Here's an explanation of the definition of finishing as per recent changes 

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/13918RacingRulesofSailingDefinitionFinishNewDefinitionSailtheCourseRules2835andrelatedrules-[24321].pdf

Regarding the sailing instructions, if there is a modification of a rule it must be stated clearly (note this is about changes to the RRS)

85. CHANGES TO RULES

85.1.

A change to a rule shall refer specifically to the rule and state the change. A change to a rule includes an addition to it or deletion of all or part of it.

85.2.

A change to one of the following types of rules may be made only as shown below.

Type of rule Change only if permitted by Racing rule Rule 86 Rule in a World Sailing code A rule in the code National authority prescription Rule 88.2 Class rule Rule 87 Rule in the notice of race Rule 89.2(b) Rule in the sailing instructions Rule 90.2(c) Rule in any other document governing the event A rule in the document itself

86. CHANGES TO THE RACING RULES

86.1.

A racing rule shall not be changed unless permitted in the rule itself or as follows:

Prescriptions of a national authority may change a racing rule, but not the Definitions; the Basic Principals; a rule in the Introduction; Part 1, 2 or 7; rule 42, 43, 47, 50, 63.4, 69, 70, 71, 75, 76.3 or 79; a rule of an appendix that changes one of these rules; Appendix H or N; or World Sailing Code listed in rule 6.1.

The notice of race or sailing instructions may change a racing rule, but not rules 76.1 or 76.2, Appendix R, or a rule listed in rule 86.1(a).

Class rules may change only racing rules 42, 49, 51, 52, 53, 54 and 55.

 

This is my understanding; the Sailing instructions and NOR are atop the hierarchy of rules that one agrees to abide by when entering, they describe the conditions of entry and field upon which the contestants compete and the rules. Once the game begins competitors play according to the RRS or Colregs (or both as the case may be) So if the sailing instructions say you shall do something and you dont then you are open to disqualification

Note that the SI's cannot change RRS definitions, so regarding finishing once you have your nose over you have finished but my interpretation is that if the sailing instructions say you shall go around the end of the line then although you have finished you have not complied with the SI's if you dont do so and could get disqualified.

Even rule has a definition!

Rule

(a) The rules in this book, including the Definitions, Race Signals, Introduction, preambles and the rules of relevant appendices, but not titles;
(b) World Sailing Regulations that have been designated by World Sailing as having the status of a rule and are published on the World Sailing website;
(c) the prescriptions of the national authority, unless they are changed by the sailing instructions in compliance with the national authority's prescription, if any, to rule 88.2;
(d) the class rules (for a boat racing under a handicap or rating system, the rules of that system are 'class rules');
(e) the notice of race;
(f) the sailing instructions; and
(g) any other documents that govern the event.

 

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3 hours ago, ynot said:

Is the club that adds bits to the sailing instructions combined with a rule # plus an addition like . 2 or. 3 making a rule or a suggestion when combined with a rule that exists already. 

Is it supposed to be enforceable or is it just a suggestion... If so then should it be even quoted with a rule attached? 

When the SI's change a rule, they have to say something like: "this changes rule XX"

eg:

  • “First Substitute” will be lowered at the same time as the new Warning signal is flown. This changes RRS Rule 29.2
  • Failure to make broadcast will not be grounds for redress. This changes RRS Rule 62.1(a)

The SI's cannot make up new rules, they can only change existing rules and even then only the rules that they are allowed to change.  As Psyche points out there are many rules that cannot be changed.

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So yes they can alter certain rules within the club and yes it should be enforceable if they alter the rules they are allowed to. But this particular one is tricky if the boat has finished I guess unless you could prove that it possibly hindered your progress or actions getting to the finish line. 

 

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48 minutes ago, ynot said:

So yes they can alter certain rules within the club and yes it should be enforceable if they alter the rules they are allowed to. But this particular one is tricky if the boat has finished I guess unless you could prove that it possibly hindered your progress or actions getting to the finish line. 

 

The RC can protest a boat that comes back across the line, the RC can kick any boat out for any justifiable reason.

But they have not created a Racing Rule that your boat can protest.  Your boat cannot protest another boat for re-crossing the line.  There's no facility for that.  You can bring it to the RCs attention and ask them to do something about it, but they do not have too.

If a boat that has finished racing gets in your way, then you can protest them for not keeping clear even if they are the right-of-way boat.

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Again its all in the definitions, a boat may have finished but it has not stopped racing until she clears the finishing line.

Racing

A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and clears the finishing line and marks or retires, or until the race committee signals a general recall, postponement or abandonment.

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The general saying is: A boat that is not racing must keep clear of boats that are. But that isn't actually a rule.

For the sake of clarity, the rule you could protest a boat under, if that boat gets in your way, is rule

23.1.   If reasonably possible, a boat not racing shall not interfere with a boat that is racing.
 
The definitions and the Part 2 preamble make all boats that have been racing, about to start racing, have come for racing, intend to race, retired from racing, etc, liable for this rule.
 
 
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