johnMi 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ooh Booger pent up hatred, not good when did I hit you? If you were on TW when I hit, fine. I apologised, offered to pay for damage, that apology was not accepted, I can accept that. But don't get all self righteous, I touched TW, not rammed, not screamed in at 15 knots. I was doing maybe 3 knots, TW 2.5. I (most probably wrongly) didn't do my turn because to me it was no big deal. If I was summoned to do a turn I would gladly have done it. If it worried you so much, or was so scared that I would beat you why did you not protest. You guys absolutely astound me with your stupidness.... and Booger be worried, be very worried, I have only started in Multis Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 358 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 hey booger, with the weight of your orange battleship, I'd have thought that was built from inch thick glass too? And john, summons or no summons, if you hit some one when on port, the correct thing to do is your turns. The other boat shouldn't have to request it. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I (most probably wrongly) didn't do my turn because to me it was no big deal. If I was summoned to do a turn I would gladly have done it. John thats called cheating sadly. And you have done it to us on creepy in the BMW when you came round the bottom mark and planted into the transom! There is no rule that states an infringing boat need not take a penalty unless proven to be in the wrong. If someone comes and rapes you (God forbid) and you cant arrest them then and there does it mean its ok? You guys absolutely astound me with your stupidness.... Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You guys absolutely astound me with your stupidness.... Mirror Mirror on the wall, whos the thickest of them all... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 And john, summons or no summons, if you hit some one when on port, the correct thing to do is your turns. The other boat shouldn't have to request it. This. By entering you agree to be bound by the Racing Rules of Sailing. The Rules begin with: The Basic Principle Competitors is the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will propmtly take a penalty, which may be to retire. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Not doing a turn because the other boat has not protested is cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 John you hit me on borderline. I wasn't to worried about it, i put it down to a racing incident, until I read your ridiculous statements on this thread. you should go back and re-read what you have writen taking into account your start box history and see how it comes across to others that have to share the same bit of water with you even if it is for just a few mins. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If I make a mistake I will take responsibility for it That is a lie. As evidenced by this statement. I (most probably wrongly) didn't do my turn because to me it was no big deal. If I was summoned to do a turn I would gladly have done it. If you took responsibility you would have done your turn promptly, as required by the basic principle of sportsmanship. But as you say, obeying the rules is no big deal to you. You can't have it both ways and claim you take responsibility for your mistakes, but then not do your turn. You're a liar, or a cheat, or both. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yeh Clipper I know, and as I said in the above post I wrongly didn't do my turns. The bump really was so minor, I didn't see it any worse than fending off another boat in the light. My mistake. There is more to this vitriole than this incident but because they are unable to argue the real issues, they wish to crucify me over this issue. That's Ok with me. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't worry MS my broker understands But hey this thread is not about me.... Now back to the AC45s.... G'day "j-M" again. Different topic. Thanks for bring this thread back to its topic. Now to AC45's With all the resources, money (by the train load), experitse (some of the very best in the world): Why have they not got 'curved beams'? Lighter, stronger, stiffer, less torque & easier ato build in 'pree-stress'. Why aren't the mid & aft sections slightly more rounded & with very slightly more rocker ? (no I'm not taking the 'miky' out of you) & 'pinch' the stern a tad? Why is the bow so lacking in bouyancy just above the - load water line? Why is the mast not 450 mm farther aft? Why are the masts not raked 500 to 800 mm back farther? Why aren't he hulls canted? Why aren't the c/b curved? Why - when they 'loose-it' don't they sail it back on to its feet, using the wing? It is a wing just at 90% to an aircraft. Winged cats were doing that back in the 70's. Guess 'kids' can't learn fromn oldies!! I'm not for 1 little nano-second - saying that they aren't fast - BUT I am saying they could be a hell of a lot faster, more stable & easier to sail. (wont dare use the words - less bitchy - cause I'll loose my balls - for sure. Now - unlike you - I AM asking 'TW' to come in here & answer your 'rocker' question & the simple questions I have asked, that is if he is allowed to do so within the constraints of his current employment. Tim? Come on bloke - give us all some better knowledge , Please. jj James The AC45 are not claiming to be the be all and end all of the ultimate multihull. Even though they are totally awesome they have made a lot of decisions to keep the boats one design and at a reasonable price. Round Beams are a good example of a very good and economic solution, no doubt curved beams could be slightly better but these are very easy to make all the same, very cheap to produce, and still do a good job. Straight foils in another example done for cost reasons. I'd say they have 50 times more alloy in them than ideal as well, but once again its a very cost effective solution. The boats they have are just so cool but actually they come out at a pretty good price for what they are (circa 600k euro). Rocker as I understand the term and used it, is another term for Keel Spring. (Not sure what Samin is on about). If you look at the ama in elevation (side on) it is the amount of curvature of the centreline. To measure it draw a straight line from the bow forefoot (the imaginary corner or intersection between the centreline of the keel line and the bow) and the stern (intersection of the stern and the centreline of the keel line). Rocker (or more of it) adds to the hulls buoyancy but can slow down its top speed. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 PS John I am pissed off because that incident was totally avoidable, I have no problem at all with minor unavoidable racing bumps. But John, I am not insured ! So i like it when other people take the same amount of care around our fragile craft as those of us have to do because we can't get insurance. Frankly your ranting makes it even harder to get as well. And Don't think I don't appreciate your offer to come help me patch up the boat from your ding, your help would be greatly appreciated when I next have the boat out on the hard! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 didn't do my turn because to me it was no big deal. /quote] yet you make a big deal about winning on handicap do you think doing your turns may effect your results? If you hit a mark with no one around to see it do you do your turns then? i very much doubt it because it's no big deal to you. Do you actully sail the whole course every week or dose that not really matter to you either. if this is starting to sound like i am implying that you may cheat. good because everytime you don't do a turn when you should that is what you are. because you race the clock for handicap and turns take time. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Booger I do not recall hitting you, your word against mine Marshy Yes I ran into the back of you in the BMW and I did my turn promptly. I was even complimented by Ryan on doing so after. Really Marshy I didn't expect the vitriole from YOU. I guess gotta keep up with the in crowd.... Kiwi Bardy You're still hurting, For one that never makes mistakes I guess you feel sorry for me, one that has so many flawes Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 TimW I am truelly sorry for the damage, and am quite happy to help repair it. I honestly did not run into you on purpose.I was going to ring you, but felt you wouild not appreciate a call at that stage. (I wish I had) My Ama was between your hull and ama and when I tried to get turn it did not happen as I (wrongly again) did not have time to ease the main. I do NOT like hitting boats, and yes it was avoidable but because (as I have pointed out on countless occasions) I cocked up. You do not have to accept my apology, but ring me when you're next out and I will help repair the damage. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Booger I owe you an apology, my crew reminded me that we got tangled up together when Taeping came through on Starboard, and we were both on port... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 John, the point most people seem to be making here is that rubbing isn't racing!!! Which really seems to go against your current philosophy, seems to me if there was an award for most crashes on the harbour, you would be in the running! That's saying something with the way the 88s and Stewarts race!!! Perhaps listening would go a long way, while racing incidents do happen, most people go out of their way to avoid them rather than letting the red mist blur their vision. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Without taking sides, this whole discussion can be avoided by just calling PROTEST! Bardy has quoted the Basic Principle, but highlighted the wrong bit: "Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce." To me, this looks like a case where a guy who doesn't understand the rules properly and doesn't have a very good sense of distance hasn't been penalised and hasn't bothered to learn because no-one else cares enough to take it to the room. I can see why he doesn't think the racing is significant enough to worry about turns when it isn't significant enough for you to enforce the rules when you have been wronged. It is worth pointing out that this is in the exact same paragraph which tells you to take a penalty if you break a rule (regardless of being protested.) People tend to stop rubbing very quickly when it results in them being disqualified and when it costs them too much $$$. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 To tie back into the AC... I don't think the "stop-go" penalty of 2 boat lengths is significant enough to cover most penalties in yacht racing. I don't know about anyone else, but I lose a heck of a lot more than 2 boat lengths doing just one turn in a dinghy. In the AC at the moment, being forced to tack at the boundary line is a bigger penalty than hitting someone, which in my opinion is not good for racing. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I agree. they need to change their penalties. If one of those cats are 25 knotts when they have to do a penalty then they would loose more than 10 boat lengths and if it was in a AC72 it would be even more. Link to post Share on other sites
NevP 0 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Even though they are totally awesome they have made a lot of decisions to keep the boats one design and at a reasonable price. I haven't read the class rules, but I would imagine that any real innovation will start happening when the AC72s come out to play and the teams get to design and build their own boats. My take on the AC45s is that they are just training boats to get the teams up to speed with multis. Link to post Share on other sites
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