floatsome 0 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Having just tied up the boat after a few weeks and weekends of cruising, I though i might canvas opinion on what everyone uses. I recently replaced the entire anchor tackle and with it came a swivel (stainless?) instead of a shackle and resulting, for me in multiple twists in the chain, towards the end when getting near the rope splice. This usually resulted in a jam, under deck, and no more chain or warp being able to be paid out. I reckon its the swivel but thought I would ask what everyone else does. i have always shackled the chain to the anchor and never had this issue. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It came with a swivel without you asking for it??? Where did the gear come from ???? First of all, like all boat systems, the more "stuff" you have, the more chance of something going wrong. With Anchoring gear, ALWAYS start with the minimum, which is Chain, Rope and a shackle, then add other bits ONLY if they are to solve a problem. Now that is not to say a Swivel is a problem, but use one Only if you really need to. One big issue today is that many winches are being made for speed rather than for power. The result is that anchors are litterally "flying" in the water as they come up and that often results in them spinning as they ascend. As for the splice, there is one right way and several wrong ways to splice rope to chain. Make sure you get it done by someone that knows the rightway. And from what we get to see, there are not many that know the rightway. A wronly spliced Rope to chain can not only cause the issue you are having, but it can also result in blowing apart the Gypsy or at least damaging it in some way. While on the subject, for a winch to work correctly, you need the correct chain for the gypsy, along with the correct type and lay of rope. Wrong in any of them will result in poor performance and undue wear. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 When fitting a swivel to your anchor rode 2 or 3 links of chain between the anchor and the swivel will remove any sideways strain on the swivel, this will assist in its longevity. The spinning of the anchor is probably caused by the lay of the rope unwinding as the anchor is recovered. Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've rarely heard good things about swivels and for that reason have avoided them myself. If for some reason my anchor twists as it goes down then presumably it untwists as it comes back up because I've never noticed any snagging with my simple shackle set-up. So unless you are convinced a swivel is required to solve a problem you know you had, I'd try ditching it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Without going into a long winded technical post, have a 2min KM overview. We started pushing the use of swivels about 12 years ago due to these new rope chain anchor winches going so fast and resulting in one or 2 specific anchors, plus bent ones of any brand, spinning which in turn can lock up the chain quickly which leads to all the twist going into the rope. If the spin is the wrong way that can (and has on a few occasions) lead to the rope unlayiny and the splice falling out. Bye bye chain and anchor. But like many things a lot of people have seen swivels fitted and thought 'I must need one as well', WRONG as most don't need one. The basic rules of thumb - - If you have a Auto rope to chain which and are using a 3 strand laid rope a swivel is a good idea. - If you have a multiplait, most being a 8 braid with a splash of a 6 strand, you don't need one as they are non-rotating ropes so twist away and the splice can't fall out. - If you are running all chain don't fit one is our default position. - If you system is working fine adding in a swivel just because the boat next door has one is silly. If it ain't broken why try to fix it? - If you are having rode twisting issues there is a range of reasons why it could be happening. Fitting a swivel is one possible action to try and stop that. Equally if you have a swivel and are getting twisting issues taking the swivel off is one action to try. Our recommendation goes like this - If you have a Auto R2C winch and are running a laid rope put a swivel on. If you have anything else don't. Save the beer tokens. Should you find a issue happening then fitting a swivel is one course of action to try and remedy the issue. Retro fitting a swivel take 5 mins, 6 beers and 3 lewd comments about the hot chicks walking past at the time. Many places will try to 'up sell' you into a swivel. Many of those swivels being a tad dodgy to be honest. which leads nicely to - Knot all swivels are created equally. Some are sh*t and some are damn good and way stronger then the chains they are hanging off. Some swivels look damn good but have serious structural issues, equally some look decidedly average but are structurally superior. Just cause it looks pretty doesn't mean it's strong and even if it looks strong it can have spooky bits which many wouldn't know to suss or think about. 2 of the 3 strongest best swivels available in NZ are probably ones that don't look the flashest. Those swivels that look like 2 eyes bolted together or their cussies that look like 2 shackles bolted together are a LOT weaker than the numbers they are published with. We have yet to find one that has got to 50% of the load they said it would. You'll hear many saying bad things about swivels but I'd suggest 99% of those comments are more related to the swivel quality and use of than much else. We hear the same comments often and it's usually easy to track back to one of the 2 previous reasons. Never use a galvanised swivel unless you intend to use it a lot. One Xmas cruse of use then a month sitting on the marina and you have probably got a rusty knot going to turn lump of steel. Use a SS one and don't worry about all the 'dissimilar' metals thing, there is next to no solid evidence that is an issue in real life bar many 'experts' on web forums. That dissimilar metals thing is very easily shot down. This para relates to Steel together with SS when used in a anchoring situation. If you are planning on anchoring for weeks at a time non-stop or have a mooring that is a different kettle of fish. If you fit any SS into your permanent mooring system in NZ, it will be removed or condemned by the contractors. Side note - if you have upside down anchor issues there is also Anchor Straighteners to be considered. These do have a swivel one end and are specifically designed to make sure your anchor arrives in your bow roller the right way up. All that make any sense?? Link to post Share on other sites
floatsome 0 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thanks people for the concise and informative replies. I am going to try the change, although KM, yes I do have a problem with upside downy thingy - f***ing pain in the arse! Will report back in due course. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Re reading your 1st post I suspect it's something knot to do with your swivel, there are a few things that can cause twisting and swivels aren't near the top of the list. But hard to work out exactly what's going on from the limited info but my head is saying 'rope choice' or 'locker sizing'. The jambing under deck bit is what's making me say that. Swivels tend to be more anchor up backwards or a between the winch and water area issue. PM me a little more detail and I'll suss what I can for you. Include a description of the rope and any colour traces it has, which will most likely but knot exclusively be green, blue or a Green/red combo. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 KM you're such a bad man for being giving up your time to offer us the wisdom of your knowledge. Will you stop it please? You'll give us a reputation for being friendly and helpful! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 KM you're such a bad man for being giving up your time to offer us the wisdom of your knowledge. Will you stop it please? You'll give us a reputation for being friendly and helpful! Na. I'm a total prick just pretending to be nice as I do anchor my own boat and often behind many others so the safer I can make them the safer my paintwork is Na x 2, happy to help when I can as I know it's getting increasingly hard to find unbiased knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 KM you're such a bad man for being giving up your time to offer us the wisdom of your knowledge. Will you stop it please? You'll give us a reputation for being friendly and helpful! Na. I'm a total prick just pretending to be nice as I do anchor my own boat and often behind many others so the safer I can make them the safer my paintwork is Na x 2, happy to help when I can as I know it's getting increasingly hard to find unbiased knowledge. WHAT f**king PAINT WORK??? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 10 years in the custom making of Thank You. It's knot one of them 2 day respray pretty things you know I'm having serious internal issues over paintwork. I know I really really want too but I also know as soon as I do I'll become a raving knutter if anything comes within 10mts of it Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 WHAT f**king PAINT WORK??? Hey, it's hard to find camoflouge paint. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Maybe KM's waiting for an exterior waterproof CRINKLE paint, perfect for reptiles The interior version washes off Link to post Share on other sites
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