Upwind sailing in heavy winds

[203 0]

Also, If you are going out and its windy, A onshore breeze is helpfull, As if you get into trouble, You will frift into shore in about 10-20minutes, Or my case, 2 minutes

 

The centerboard Idea also works, We use it in the 3.7 aswell, Helps to keep the boat flat when windy, Just dont be scared for a few swims, IF you come back absolutely stuffed, Then its a good days sailing

[Zoe 8]

Thanks guys.

 

Not all that scared of capsizing. Just of capsizing to windward. Too many bad memories of Europe sailing.

 

I think my love life has gone too smoothly Knot Me in recent years but I'm sure I can funnel my anger through the boat somehow. Maybe 'how come you are watching TV and I am up folding laundry' will do it.

 

The centreboard idea occured to me but I was too scared to do it in case it meant we went over easier - will try it next time.

 

Thank you again guys.

[Guest]

I don't think I can add anything relevant to Zoe's situation, as my dinghy is heavy and stable and not a boat that you would want to capsize (nor is it a boat easy to capsize), but I would like to add a few observations from my first couple of years of dinghy sailing in stronger winds -- mainly hoping to learn something from any replies.

 

First, if I was overpowered by the wind and I hadn't reefed the mainsail, a big problem I had was that I was forced to dump almost all the wind out of the mainsail (by letting the mainsail out). This was a big problem because it brought almost all the sail area in front of the dagger board (especially if I had my jib up), and therefore, the wind kept turning the boat away from the wind. In fact, the only thing I could do is give up and sail downwind. The solutions were (1) to reef the mainsail and (2) drop the jib.

 

Second, if I was overpowered and sailing upwaind, again because I was dumping most of the wind and also because of the waves, I was barely making progress up wind. In fact, I was at times going backwards (which I could tell from the steering, even though the sensation provided by the wind and waves was that I was moving forward). Again, reefing the sail as helped tremendously here, but I am aware that I need to keep forward momentum and cannot dump too much of the wind. But if the wind is this strong, I'll try to reach if at all possible rather than to go upwind.

 

Third, in shifty winds, whether strong or not, I try to sail further away from the wind. Then, if the wind moves toward the bow, I do not end up head-on to the wind.

 

Fourth, when I get a strong puff, I prefer to let the mainsail out a bit and spill the wind rather than steer up into the wind to depower. In the latter case, I find it difficult to judge when the puff is over and thus when to steer away again, and often I lose too much momentum with the boat slamming head-on into waves.

[Farrari 4]

My 2 cents worth.

 

First, if I was overpowered by the wind and I hadn't reefed the mainsail, a big problem I had was that I was forced to dump almost all the wind out of the mainsail (by letting the mainsail out). This was a big problem because it brought almost all the sail area in front of the dagger board (especially if I had my jib up), and therefore, the wind kept turning the boat away from the wind. In fact, the only thing I could do is give up and sail downwind. The solutions were (1) to reef the mainsail and (2) drop the jib.

 

gp it sounds like you perhaps have the centre of effort too far forward if the boat is turning down wind in gusts. This is known as lee helm. What you ideally want is a bit of weather helm where the boat will heel over and round up in a gust. Here is a good web site that talks about the balance of a boat.

 

http://www.sailingusa.info/sailboat_balance.htm

 

Second, if I was overpowered and sailing upwaind, again because I was dumping most of the wind and also because of the waves, I was barely making progress up wind. In fact, I was at times going backwards (which I could tell from the steering, even though the sensation provided by the wind and waves was that I was moving forward). Again, reefing the sail as helped tremendously here, but I am aware that I need to keep forward momentum and cannot dump too much of the wind. But if the wind is this strong, I'll try to reach if at all possible rather than to go upwind.

 

When you have an overpowered main, it often helps to loosen the kicker (assuming you have a rigid mast) so as you can spill wind from the top of the sail while still having enough sail area in at the foot so as you have control. if you have a bendy mast then you should crank the kicker on really hard to bend the mast and flatten the sail out. Both are always done in conjunction with lots of cunningham and outhaul.

[Guest]

Thanks Farrari,

 

I have weather helm when the mainsail is pulled in, but lee helm when the mainsail is a long way out. I was probably a little innacurate in my previous post. I may have been on a (beam) reach and been trying to turn into the wind more, but was getting blown such that I was actually turning downwind. Since I was reaching, the main had to be a long way out to spill most of the wind, and therefore it was mostly (all?) in front of the daggerboard.

 

I don't have a kicker (or outhaul or cunningham; it is a cruising dinghy with a pretty simple set up). But I'm glad you mentioned your second point. I have recently been reefing the main in strong winds, but the reefing setup has been such that the sail isn't super flat. I had been wondering whether to "improve" the reefing system so that the sail was flatter (since I always read that you are supposed to have your sails flatter in stronger wind), but it seems better to keep things as they are (esp. since I am not racing), from what you are saying. I have found that the "loose" reefed sail has worked tremendously well -- sailing has been very cruisy (far more so than expected) and I had indeed assumed I was spilling a lot of the wind through the sail shape. Do you think my understanding is correct?

[Zoe 8]

The fuller ssail shape might help you with steering around waves too. Sometimes it's better to sail low in order to ultimately go higher. (Figuring out where 'low' and 'high' is sometimes is not so easy until you get in the groove esp if you are sailing by yourself)

[Mothership 6]

The fuller ssail shape might help you with steering around waves too. Sometimes it's better to sail low in order to ultimately go higher. (Figuring out where 'low' and 'high' is sometimes is not so easy until you get in the groove esp if you are sailing by yourself)

 

It's not quite a dinghy, but on the Demo Wal and Mike tend to steer lower and come up later, which has worked well in the past.

 

Anyway, as I've said to Zoe - going to go down and try some of this dinghy stuff

[madyottie 82]

 

I don't have a kicker (or outhaul or cunningham; it is a cruising dinghy with a pretty simple set up). But I'm glad you mentioned your second point. I have recently been reefing the main in strong winds, but the reefing setup has been such that the sail isn't super flat. I had been wondering whether to "improve" the reefing system so that the sail was flatter (since I always read that you are supposed to have your sails flatter in stronger wind), but it seems better to keep things as they are (esp. since I am not racing), from what you are saying.

 

I'd have to disagree here.

 

In a blow, even cruising, being able to flatten your sails is important. If you get caught out, it's nice to know you can sail home quickly and safely, even if it's directly upwind.

 

You don't need a lot of purchase on any of these controls, most times racing dinghies have a lot of purchase to allow finer adjustment, rather than to provide more pull, but to my mind, you definitely need them.

 

To save doubling up, and to not hijack Zoe's thread, I'll put my reasoning in the "heavy weather questions" thread.

[Guest]

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind Madyottie. It may be that adding all the extra bits and pieces to trim the sail is beyond what I want to do in the immediate future. Something to consider in the future maybe.

 

I was thinking about Zoe's original posts while sailing this afternoon. Not that the wind was strong today but I found that when sailing upwind, I instinctively turn away from the wind by a few degrees anytime I feel the pressure ease, and I sense the easing of the wind through the boat heeling less and/or a flap of the jib more so than feeling a change in pressure through the sheet of the mainsail. I think it is just a matter of being in tune with your boat so that you turn away from the wind within a fraction of a second of a pressure drop. (Here the "pressure drop" may actually be the wind shifting by a few degrees toward the bow, hence the need to turn away by the same amount; or a decrease in wind speed, in which case sailing further from the wind provides more oomph during the lull. I guess I'm stating stuff that is pretty obvious to most people .)

[Guest]

Zoe,

built up the upwind angle from a more reaching angle, say 40 degree TWA, as you will be quick enough to deal with gusts and waves, and the resultant heeling and when you get it together the stacking out.

 

As you get comfortable at one angle, tighten the angle progressively until you are truly sailing upwind.

 

With winds close to 20 knots I often just sail at half wind, say 60 degrees, so i have enough time to re-act to gusts and get on the wire (in my 3.7).

Other trick building up confidence is to crack the mainsheet, making less of the sail effective and/or ease into the breeze in a gust.

[Zoe 8]

Thanks.

 

I did get out on the weekend just for one race which was all I could get out of the house for. The wind was up and down so when it was up I gave it all I could and I can see I will get there, it's just time on the water.

 

It is certainly a good workout! Phew! I can't quite see a time in my life when I ease the hiking straps much more than they are.

 

I am working up to buy the gennaker kit for the boat too. Now that will be interesting.

 

http://oceanz1.homestead.com/sailboat-p ... RaceX.html

[203 0]

Then add the trapeze kit to that and youl be away!

[Zoe 8]

It would avoid the problem of hiking!

 

If I get the gennaker kit then I can sail with a friend which I like the idea of.

[madyottie 82]

Better still, get the full set of rigs.

 

The raceX is best for all-round, but the Tres has jib, kite and wires, so better for taking friends. The only down-side is it requires a different mast. I haven't checked whether the local dealer carries that version, but most likely do.

 

The raceX kite kit takes around half an hour to fit, and from memory we had to hotknife a tiny slit in the luff-tube of the Uno mainsail for the halyard block. Other than that, I think it was just a case of tieing knots in the strings. Once it's setup, it should be only a minute to change back to standard.

 

I was a Topper dealer once, until coming back to NZ in late '09. My wife has a Topper (a real one, not a Topaz) here still. Strangely someone had imported a second-hand one from the UK, and was selling it on TM weeks after we arrived back here. It cost less than we got for her old one in the UK.

 

I believe she's going to race it at Pakuranga over the winter, and (hopefully) at FBYC for our shield team at next years Manukau Regatta.

[Zoe 8]

Hi again, I could be wrong but I think they discontinued the Tres and introduced this one:

 

http://oceanz1.homestead.com/sailboat-p ... lboat.html

 

This actually looks really cool and would be great for our family in a few years time.

 

I'll learn how to cope with the sail power I've got before I worry about a yet bigger rig!

[madyottie 82]

A quick browse on the TI website shows the tres is alive and well, but has been updated to the tres-X, with laminate sails, to give a more modern look.

 

The Magno is IMHO a better boat, but is a totally different boat, longer, higher, and an awesome machine for two small teenagers.

My wife and I raced one when they first came out and I had some input into the early development.

 

The magno is my favourite of all the topaz range, although doesn't go very well without the jib. And I've never sailed one with a trapeze, mostly due to our total weight being around 170kg, and racing being cancelled before it got windy enough to use it! Downhill in 25 knots with the kite up, they're really fun!

[Zoe 8]

So I psyched myself up today to join the FBYC coaching session in anticipation of up to 20 knots. What happened? We had maybe 12 knots with some bursts in the higher teens. But I discovered am quite capable of hiking and keeping the boat steady in a consistent breeze - so next up is to do it in a puffy inconsistent breeze.

Stay tuned.

 

Oh and my legs hurt.

[Guest]

So I psyched myself up today to join the FBYC coaching session in anticipation of up to 20 knots. What happened? We had maybe 12 knots with some bursts in the higher teens. But I discovered am quite capable of hiking and keeping the boat steady in a consistent breeze - so next up is to do it in a puffy inconsistent breeze.

Stay tuned.

 

Oh and my legs hurt.

 

Golly & you've only got 2 - WOW - such pain - U'll get over it.

[Zoe 8]

Yep!

[DrWatson 378]

This is the thread I've been looking for!

 

The skiff is negatively stable. It falls over by itself on the LAWN!

 

So hiking has become the most important part of sailing.

 

Now all we need is some wind.

 

Standard to have 2 knts variable at the moment