Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The general interest in getting something together from those who dont post or are not crew posters is actually greater than what most will think Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I would agree with you there nzrat, its all about being able to group the boats that feel kinda orphaned, or want to tweek their boat beyond their current class rules the hot rod class was ment for all of this group. two divisions, with line honnours and a race track handicap results. It may well still all be on steve alloways sight some where Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Best we get the ball rolling again then. I'm sure the end of year rum race will have a Hotrod div.... ay Dave? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ... thinking Mini650 thread... ...thinking 23 pages... ... thinking... Won't happen! while it is great to have great ideas and great support on a forum i think the support mechanisms around sailing in NZ and Local management at the top level (and Between clubs) of clubs is fragmented and will not allow such a great idea to go anywhere and grow the idea into what peole want. From my brief veiw while in NZ i would say you have to many clubs supporting small similar fleets and thus small events. Also you have all the associated politics of each club/fleet waetring down the full potentail your keel boat fleet/s have. Until you adress the Big Picture and rationnalize the amount of clubs then great ideas like these will be hard to instigatte and hard to maintain. Kiwi's love of maverick/ tweaked one off/ bastardized boats versus one design, as we have in America, is great but at the end of the day fleet sizes suffer and club/yachting ultimately suffer... unless.... You get this box rile running (via reducing all the fragmentation the numerous clubs offer) Within a twenty mile radius of Aucland city you have how manny clubs...20? With possibly 7-8 divisions of keel boats racing?..... that is totally NUTS! Big ideas need big big change Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This one's a bit different JP. The HotRod class was well established 2007-10 although a couple of key people sold their boats and the class went off the rails on the organisation front. The Hotrods had a division in most major events/regattas. It just needs someone to make it happen again. All the boats are in existance and the owners are keen. Completely different situation to your examples above. Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 OK, I like the idea, but my opinion's probably not worth a lot here cause my new boat will be too large and on the wrong side of the planet. But lets say I had 15-20k to go play with. Which is a small amount in terms of boat, but a lot in terms of feeding the kids and dressing the lady, paying the mortgage etc. But let's say I have it. How would be the best way to come and play? Find an older 30ft, strip it out, new main and genoa? Pimp it the kiwi back yard way? And now we're at 20K already. Are we looking to recycle older boats and pimp them? I'm all for encouraging more racing in more boats and getting more people out of their lounges and into fun. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Dr W, the best way to come and play is... MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This one's a bit different JP. The HotRod class was well established 2007-10 although a couple of key people sold their boats and the class went off the rails on the organisation front. The Hotrods had a division in most major events/regattas. It just needs someone to make it happen again. All the boats are in existance and the owners are keen. Completely different situation to your examples above. It's no different, WT, at all. Why did the Hot Rod Div fail?... Numbers? ... reliance of to few to manage it ?.... Cost?.... Changes in Boats?.... Cost of Booats to maintain speed edge?... lack of cost reducing rules ?... Numbers Game stuff? Just say there was one Sailing club in Auckland that had all the keelers racing there? how would that pan out, with regarrd to nummers and organisational functiion, in your Mind WT.? Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Ok, this is going to turn into another unproductive 'JP knows best' slagging match so lets avoid the grief and leave it there. I'll see what info I can drag up from the previous Hotrod class and see if we can't get the ball rolling again. Anyone who currently owns or has a direct interest in a hotrod type boat in NZ, and who wants to be kept in the loop regarding progress, PM me your email address. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 How would be the best way to come and play? Find an older 30ft, strip it out, new main and genoa? Pimp it the kiwi back yard way? And now we're at 20K already. Are we looking to recycle older boats and pimp them? I like your thinking Dr. There's a little part of me (the more money (if I had it) than sense bit) that would like to take a tired old narrow hard chine, circa 30 foot, Spencer. Pimp it as per Ragtime/ Infidel, complete with timber veneer on the cabin sides, modern bulb keel (even canting) and carbon rig and...then...just...send it! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well my two cents worth. I don't believe making a box rule to suit old slow shitters is the way to go. you would be far better coming up with a handicap system exclusive to 30 foot boats. a rule doesn't encourage development of slow boats at all. at the end of the day a slow boat in a box rule is still a slow boat. If you create a box rule you must be racing for line so the fastest boats still reap the rewards. Ok so you say you are going to run a handicap within the rule, so what is the point of having a rule. My argument is clearly evident in the 8.5's. there are two or three boats optimised to the rule and the rest are making up the numbers. What a crock of sh*t, in the right hands/right conditions almost any of the 8.5s could win on line. Even the boats that cant win on line are having very close racing unlike the open division which is a procession... in terms of a keelboat box rule... If I was going to sail a keelboat I would sail 1 design, not a box rule Your kidding right? In the 8.5's you only have to look as far back as last wed night race. time between first and last of these boats included in this rule to even things out is approximately 17mins. open division if you take team vodafone out because the are no way near similar to the rest of the boats the difference between them is approximately six mins! Who has the closest racing? KM are you sure you want to do a 30 foot rule? last time i checked a 930 is 30.5 feet long! Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 How would be the best way to come and play? Find an older 30ft, strip it out, new main and genoa? Pimp it the kiwi back yard way? And now we're at 20K already. Are we looking to recycle older boats and pimp them? I like your thinking Dr. There's a little part of me (the more money (if I had it) than sense bit) that would like to take a tired old narrow hard chine, circa 30 foot, Spencer. Pimp it as per Ragtime/ Infidel, complete with timber veneer on the cabin sides, modern bulb keel (even canting) and carbon rig and...then...just...send it! Get stuck in. As I remember the HR division was very much a case of run what you brung! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 How would be the best way to come and play? Find an older 30ft, strip it out, new main and genoa? Pimp it the kiwi back yard way? And now we're at 20K already. Are we looking to recycle older boats and pimp them? I like your thinking Dr. There's a little part of me (the more money (if I had it) than sense bit) that would like to take a tired old narrow hard chine, circa 30 foot, Spencer. Pimp it as per Ragtime/ Infidel, complete with timber veneer on the cabin sides, modern bulb keel (even canting) and carbon rig and...then...just...send it! That's exactly the thinking lads, grab a cheap old shitter and tinkle hard out as the coin allows. Or grab semi-shitter that is 1/2 done or maybe a OK boat that's been turboed or if you want throw the coin hard and go hard. I have one that's somewhere between cheap old shitter and semi-shitter in terms of a keelboat box rule...If I was going to sail a keelboat I would sail 1 design, not a box rule I was going to by a OD Multi but it looks like some box rule killed those off. We had great racing in them back in the day. 30ft there abouts..... +/- ........ around-abouts. That OK Send it? ya cheeky sh*t Are we looking to recycle older boats and pimp them? Yeap. As a FYI, the 930's are a recyclable Class, part of our 'Ross Re-Greening the World' programme At least two 930's are being recycled as I write and will be back on the water soon close to but knot quite the same. PM coming at ya WT. Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well my two cents worth. I don't believe making a box rule to suit old slow shitters is the way to go. you would be far better coming up with a handicap system exclusive to 30 foot boats. a rule doesn't encourage development of slow boats at all. at the end of the day a slow boat in a box rule is still a slow boat. If you create a box rule you must be racing for line so the fastest boats still reap the rewards. Ok so you say you are going to run a handicap within the rule, so what is the point of having a rule. My argument is clearly evident in the 8.5's. there are two or three boats optimised to the rule and the rest are making up the numbers. What a crock of sh*t, in the right hands/right conditions almost any of the 8.5s could win on line. Even the boats that cant win on line are having very close racing unlike the open division which is a procession... Your kidding right? In the 8.5's you only have to look as far back as last wed night race. time between first and last of these boats included in this rule to even things out is approximately 17mins. open division if you take team vodafone out because the are no way near similar to the rest of the boats the difference between them is approximately six mins! Who has the closest racing? you cant take a boat out just because it suits your argument. Fact is you have never beaten Vodafone and never will therefore you can never got line honours unless they dont race or dont finish. Handicap racing at its best. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well I think we have a thread drift here The Raft Tards have brought their new squabble to a mono forum go beat each other up in your own arena and lets get back to the 30ft box rule discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I disagree there Mr Motorbike. No one is going to spend $250k on a carbon canter with all the bling just to race suped up shitters from the 80s. Surely the owner of Crusader didn't build it so he can test is sailing skills and prove himself against S34s. The Hot Rod dvivision should be exactly what hot rods are all about in the traditional sense (i.e. taking an old car and spending way too much money on it to make it look sexy and go faster). Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I disagree there Mr Motorbike. No one is going to spend $250k on a carbon canter with all the bling just to race suped up shitters from the 80s. Surely the owner of Crusader didn't build it so he can test is sailing skills and prove himself against S34s. The Hot Rod dvivision should be exactly what hot rods are all about in the traditional sense (i.e. taking an old car and spending way too much money on it to make it look sexy and go faster). +1 indeed. These days people spend 250k, on a 30 foot carbon canter to beat the 50's! Us 80's crowd are way off the radar Link to post Share on other sites
Hurts 6 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I disagree there Mr Motorbike. No one is going to spend $250k on a carbon canter with all the bling just to race suped up shitters from the 80s. Surely the owner of Crusader didn't build it so he can test is sailing skills and prove himself against S34s. The Hot Rod dvivision should be exactly what hot rods are all about in the traditional sense (i.e. taking an old car and spending way too much money on it to make it look sexy and go faster). You raise an interesting point (sorry for thread drift) - the owner of crusader built it to test his sailing skills and prove himself against ... who exactly? Will it be able to race offshore, RNI what's the plan? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Your kidding right? In the 8.5's you only have to look as far back as last wed night race. time between first and last of these boats included in this rule to even things out is approximately 17mins. open division if you take team vodafone out because the are no way near similar to the rest of the boats the difference between them is approximately six mins! Who has the closest racing? you cant take a boat out just because it suits your argument. Fact is you have never beaten Vodafone and never will therefore you can never got line honours unless they dont race or dont finish. Handicap racing at its best. Exactly my argument samin. why bother with a rule when we all race for handicap anyway!!! Btw we have beaten Vodafone. especially when they have navigational issues. Km + or - 30 feet. Hmmm Can see the rule promo pamphlet now. Come join the 30foot 6 inch and 3/64ths box rule. Oh I feel a roll coming on. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 A 30ft box rule with no restraints means chequebook racing- end of story.No one has ever said 'no restrictions'. In fact many like the idea of having restrictions to minimise that very chequebook racing. By far, in fact I think 100%, have said one rule must be no canters, for example. The 930's new rule is basically this - A R930 hull and decks Max Std 930 mast and boom lengths Slightly longer kite pole max 2mts from the stem for a prod max 2.4mts draft no canting, no water ballast must have 5 bunks must have dunny must have galley must comply with all YNZ Regs Clean, simple and will allow some limited fiddling and optimising for your style. How does that stack up with the Hotrod stuff? Link to post Share on other sites
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