Kiteroa 8 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 My feeling is that it needs to be more a catagory than a rule. The Hotrod class pretty much hit the nail on the head. Of course you need a handicap system. The Hotrod class used race track if i'm not mistaken. I think the horse has bolted in terms of defining a box rule to fit existing boats. It's a different situation to when the 8.5 class was born. Not many people have enough money to build a new boat in any capacity. I can only think of a few new 30-ish boats in recent years. Karma and Overload, maybe tongue twister. Other than those, there's just not enough going on to entertain new rule. So best to define some rough dimensions, say 10m max LOA and fixed keel. I'm sure if you put a Hotrod class in the end of year rum race there would be 10 boats. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I sugested this to KM a couple of days back the principle idea was a level box rule general discussion was to have a box rule consisting of these parameters Loa 9.3m Beam Max 3.5 Displacement 1500kg minimum Max Draft 2.4m Max mast height above waterline 13.5m 4 permanent bunks ( Double Berth counts as 2) No Canters Minimum headroom of 1.37m (4ft) Boats must be capable of Cat 3 certification Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 well that would put fun n games out, and the likes of prawn broker, positive touch, length draft and rig height. Perhaps make the max parimiter fit the flying tiger, length etc the rig hight is quite limiting. Our I point was 11.6 of the deck with the original rig. the big problem with a box is it invites check book racing, longest deepest biggest ........ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Can I play if I bring this? http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 395527.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 In all seriousness and with respect would people realy look to build a high performance mono today, when you could have a performance multi? I mean VW or Porsche?? Just look at the latest high performance boats to arrive in town, Mat Fylnns flyer, Katipo, the SL33 due any time, 888, TimW rebuild, Stealth, ........... hasnt the focus of the realy active race set now shifted to multis? Dingding: game on Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 ...yeah you're right. No one's building high performance mono's these days at all. Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Guessing she'd just fall foul of the air draft limit Outboard. Not sure if Wakas still around, she might just sneak in. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Ahh well. Thats the end of that idea MarkM! Best I stick with the 550. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Nice looking boat though OB. My first reaction was it looked a bit like a cross between a Young 8.4 and an Elliot 9. Bring it up here and whoever buys my boat can give it a go! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Looks like a perfect little SIMRAD weapon to me all right. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 In all seriousness and with respect would people realy look to build a high performance mono today, when you could have a performance multi? It's easy, it's all about the challenge. Anyone can make a multi go fast but knot all a mono. It's just like skydiving in search of the adrenalin rush. Mono sailors are the ones who gear up, climb up in the plane while quietly filling their undies with brown stuff then jump out to get the rush. Multi sailors just pop behind the bike shed with Lance Armstrong I've been a bit surprised with the feedback on this, a lot more than was expected. The gist of it is saying to me that maybe a 30ft box rule 'Class' isn't so much what people are after as it would be quite tricky to do and make a big fleet. The call seems more to be a 30ft, there abouts, Box 'Division'. A fleet where anyone can rock up and have a crack with a pile of similar like minded boats. I suppose the closet thing to it is the SH Sporty Div in SSANZ's SIMRAD. I'll try and do a little more work/info gathering and see where that goes. It was very interesting that in all the feed back every person bar 1 said 'no canters'. Of all the things said that was easily the most common. I found that somewhat interesting. Tis nice that Beale. I do like the paint job and cockpit. Link to post Share on other sites
Hurts 6 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [/quote=Knot Me]It's easy, it's all about the challenge. Anyone can make a multi go fast but knot all a mono. Really?? I guess it is quite easy to go faster than a mono but it's those other pesky multis that I have a problem with beating. Anyway no need to start mono/multi spat - I think the box rule is a good concept if you can get one started. Having a handicap system is not a big fault - even one design fleets do like the 88's, there will always be faster boats and better crews etc and a handicap shares the prizes around a bit and encourages participation and improvement but everyone I suspect want's to actually win on line Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 everyone I suspect want's to actually win on line And that is exactly why we will always struggle to introduce a new class. I was saying just this weekend the 'NZ way' means the next probably Class we'll managed to get going will be something like AC72's and even then at least one, or more, owners will want to turbo that. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 The key problem with trying to start a new class is always the cost. You have to start with an existing base fleet and let it evolve into something better. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Apart from the issue that no one will agree on a set of Parameters that dont fit them personally we actually have a class already going down this box rule concept with the 930 class .Why do we not use this oppertunity to create a box rule arena now for other boats in the same parameters that will encompass a hell of a lot more boats. There are wooden 88s (believe they cant race as class boats (although they were around before the tupperware versions)out there one offs like mine and others smaller boats like SR26 Elliots the list goes on, for events such as coastal and simrad who knows may even be able to get a Kawau 30 regatta organised for Kawau bay at some point. Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 120 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 So can someone remind me how the Hot Rod system worked? Did it have two sizes for us smaller boats? The Simrad has shown there is a good bunch of sub 8m hot rod type boats coming out that could be a good sub class being: The SRs E7.9s E7.4s and 770s R780s and a few others like us, Geralda, Abinito. Perhaps there are some synergy’s with the sportsboat fleet too - it could use a bit of invigoration too. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 As I understood it, there is the under 26 club for boats like The SRs, E7.9s, E7.4s and 770s R780s etc. If the boat is over 26ft, you were tipped into the hotrod division. From memory, the top end of the hotrods was the likes of Blackout & Positive Touch etc. I think just for the sake of including the 930's, 9.3m could be the max LOA for the hotrod div. But best person to ask is Steve M, as he's already been through all this, so no need to re-invent the wheel. His concept seemed to work. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 OK where's Steve hiding? I'm getting a lot of people expressing interest in some sort of 30ft, there about, thing. A lot more than I would have expected so that could easily mean there is a gap that wants filling somehow. I think the SR's would be more at home in a 30ft thing than a 26. Many can clean up 30's so they may find they are a bit lonesome in the 26fter. The SR fleet isn't a slow one and it's infested with drunks so they will send whenever they get a chance to send. Same with one or two of the others in that list WT. Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well my two cents worth. I don't believe making a box rule to suit old slow shitters is the way to go. you would be far better coming up with a handicap system exclusive to 30 foot boats. a rule doesn't encourage development of slow boats at all. at the end of the day a slow boat in a box rule is still a slow boat. If you create a box rule you must be racing for line so the fastest boats still reap the rewards. Ok so you say you are going to run a handicap within the rule, so what is the point of having a rule. My argument is clearly evident in the 8.5's. there are two or three boats optimised to the rule and the rest are making up the numbers. What a crock of sh*t, in the right hands/right conditions almost any of the 8.5s could win on line. Even the boats that cant win on line are having very close racing unlike the open division which is a procession... in terms of a keelboat box rule... If I was going to sail a keelboat I would sail 1 design, not a box rule Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ha samin wheres the like button So assuming you want good racing, lots a class stuff throughout the year, and room to cruise with your soon to be young family' i see the perfect logical choice ...... the young 88 great boats, I wish i still owned 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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