Marshy 30 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 2. If your grass is dying in your backyard why travel across the country to fertilize some one else lawn? Because French Grass is sooo much better? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 oui oui. nothing better than being a big fish in a small pond though. I'm sure thats what the great of NZ sailing thought. "ah, just won the sunburst auckland champs, thats it for me............" Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If people want to build mini650's and compete overseas there's nothing stopping them doing it now. Just don't expect to see huge fleets suddenly popping up locally. One thing that is going to make a succesfull class here is that everyone can agree on the rules and type of boat we should be sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If people want to build mini650's and compete overseas there's nothing stopping them doing it now. Just don't expect to see huge fleets suddenly popping up locally. One thing that is going to make a succesfull class here is that everyone can agree on the rules and type of boat we should be sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 oui oui. nothing better than being a big fish in a small pond though. I'm sure thats what the great of NZ sailing thought. "ah, just won the sunburst auckland champs, thats it for me............" That's one of those 'easier said than won' type regattas..... Like the Hartley 16 nationals. The sure bet till you show up and realise you're the only boat with panelled sails when everyone else is running single piece carbon gear. Good work on the mini's. They are a seriously hard boat to sail well. I had the pleasure/pain of sailing 403 Mk.2 from Tauranga to Auckland. It was one of the hardest sails i've had and it was a real surprise just how hard the boat needs to be worked to perform. It didn't sail like a shaw 6.5 or any other sport boat. More like a heavy skiff that needed a lot of helm work to keep on the plane. Not a boat that you can leave on autopilot and rest if you want to do any good off the wind. A normal person would be a wreck after the first night if you had the kite up in anything over 15 knots. Although the 403's were apparently very involved boats to sail, i think their speed was a lot to do with the way Chris sailed them. I've never seen a guy drive a boat so well off the wind. And this is while being very seasick at the same time. You need big balls, high tolerance for discomfort and minimal sleep requirement to do well in a mini. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest at the dairy Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If people want to build mini650's and compete overseas there's nothing stopping them doing it now. Just don't expect to see huge fleets suddenly popping up locally. One thing that is going to make a succesfull class here is that everyone can agree on the rules and type of boat we should be sailing. I would say its the other way around, there is no way that people in this country will think up a decent rule....... whats was he last good one? Look what happened when YNZ did it.....real success.....It will be another bastard class... I think we are off topic here, this is for people wanting to build MINIs and set up a circuit, if you want to bring this different NZ specific boat maybe you can have a separate division.... well see what one ends up being more popular and encourages the Aussies etc to come and play...... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Guys Don't over complicate it too soon think kiss - just leave the rules as per the international class and go yachting. You could set a good working handicap system ( race track ) the likely hood of someone going all out and spending another 7k plus to go black stuff is initially unlikely. the gains are minimal as currently being proved in the lastest results with the production Dingo 2 featuring highly in the podium. these aren't canters or carbon. Time on water is a huge factor in any campain, most of the check book racers don't have all the time in the world Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creative suffering Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Step off the soap box for a moment CS, aren't you the same one who's been banging on about the lack of offshore sailing for NZers? Oh yeah, build orphans, that's sure to help the cause......knot. And what's with all this 'come to us' crap. You're fecking dreaming or your P lab is leaking something, possibly both. You would be NZ's 1st trans-gender Prime Minister long before the Europeans came down here to play with bastardised Minis. I'd like to know we would get cheaper and better. I have time for a laugh so go for it. May pay to read the Mini rules 1st though or you stand a big risk of looking like a raving loony. KM, Would that be the soap box just next to yours but behind and slightly lower?? Ask Mr Bruce Farr what can be acheived cheaply when europe and the yanks were building expensive, and what was considered fast boats! remember 45 south, titus canby, .............. cheap boats that the world camr to NZ and a NZ'R for ( i was going to be rude here but did not want to stoop to your "moot" or is that mute?, comment) Ask mr J spencer when he built the fastest and cheapest plywood boat called infidel, ragtime and whipped the yanks in their back yard! Ask LAurie Davidson... or our 470 builders of the 80's who made the cheapest and best boats here and the euro's brought them! Ask the speryacht builders about their quality and good pricing! and why the Euro's come here! (could talk about you drug habits here too, but will not!) Kiwis are famous in yachting because of the examples above! we are the best when we do our own ting and don't follow! Followers will never be leaders! Farr, coutts, schnakenberg, our superyacht industry,our spar makers, North sails, Davidson, are all local examples of people / organisations who take on the biggest in the world and win! through quality and price KM yes i did talk about offshore racing but in the context of walking locally before you run internationally!... i THINK YOU HAVE LOST THE PLOT AND FLOW OF THE FORUM!. As for your last comment... well if people decide to do their own thing with their own rules, locally, then reading the internationaL 650 rules would be as usefull as ... being defeatist and saying "we can't get euro's to come here"....anymore! KM, i thought you were a loyalist, open minded and forward thinking.. you are now only humourous and i am the one doing the laughing! I hope this answers you questions and justifies my comments and NZ great yachting history!. A History of bold people, smart low budget thinking, perseverence, thinking out of the box, and big sailing fleets Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Oh brother! In my view everyone can express an opinion however those who are actually putting in the $ and effort to design and build 'em have the right to decide what rules are employed. Everyone else should just shut up! Thoughts Booboo? Let's get the discussion back on track. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hey CS, I thought the 650 was a box rule that allows free thinking in design. This concept, coupled with the cost limiting restraints built into it make it perfect for Kiwi's to exploit. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Sorry CS but as you don't seem to be able to answer the questions I think we'll just move on. It'll be far more productive to look forward rather than back to the 70/80's. In with you 100% both FNG and Outboard. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creative suffering Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Sorry CS but as you don't seem to be able to answer the questions I think we'll just move on. It'll be far more productive to look forward rather than back to the 70/80's. In with you 100% both FNG and Outboard. Sorry KM but i did answer you questions and rude comments quite well and you are the one with the blinkers on! are you, in not responding, either a whimp, or admitting that my examples show that i am correct?, or humbled by what we have achieved by being brave and free thinking? i think, with a attitude like that, you are closed minded and unable to talk tough when the debate has you on the back foot! are you saying, by no reply, that our old and current (superyacht) history is not important and has no relevance to what our strengths are? and how to make this fleet work!? iGNORE THE LESSONS OF HISTORY AT YOUR OWN PERIL! this fleet will not take off locally (except for a few rich people) if you alienate your thinking away from viable options. in fact i bet you that there will be no more than 3 boats in the water 12 months from know.... why.... well read all the posts you will see that alot of people were concerned with price! (read the posts again). thats where i suggested a "budget fleet" to get numbers up! and you ignored that in favour of the expensive option because you have loads of dosh and only care for yourself and not the majority of Joe average guys who WANT a viable $$$ option! Open your mind!.. Knot just your wallet Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The rule requirements specifying certain gear will push cost up...yes? Actually the rules are written to minimise cost. A few years back they re-wrote them to eliminate lots of expensive materials. What the feck are you on about CS?????!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creative suffering Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Oh brother! In my view everyone can express an opinion however those who are actually putting in the $ and effort to design and build 'em have the right to decide what rules are employed. Everyone else should just shut up! Thoughts Booboo? Let's get the discussion back on track. so wat you are saying is this THREAD is closed to peole who want to... offer advice consider the options before commiting built a boat but want to ensure themselves of the fact / options and discuss the true viability Outboard, are you building? will you not cooment in other threads if your not directly involved? telling proplr to shut up because they have a opinion that is not like yours is pathetic and offersnothing to the great debate that this thread is! out of all these comments something great could evolve but not with inane comment like yours! I am very interested in building one! and want to do it cheaply and for the fun of it!... but according to you and KM people like me don't count as we want a cheaper option and to race locally! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If people want to build mini650's and compete overseas there's nothing stopping them doing it now. Just don't expect to see huge fleets suddenly popping up locally. One thing that is going to make a succesfull class here is that everyone can agree on the rules and type of boat we should be sailing. I would say its the other way around, there is no way that people in this country will think up a decent rule....... whats was he last good one? Look what happened when YNZ did it.....real success.....It will be another bastard class... I think we are off topic here, this is for people wanting to build MINIs and set up a circuit, if you want to bring this different NZ specific boat maybe you can have a separate division.... well see what one ends up being more popular and encourages the Aussies etc to come and play...... The problem with that example is that YNZ made that a compition rather than a collaberation. Many more minds put together could probably make a rule that is better suited to the majority of sailors in this neck of the woods. The more input from interested parties the better. There will definately be a few comprimises in termsof what everyone wants, but if you work through the process you would end up with something that more people are happy to sail rather than a mini which only few people might be happy to sail. The main aim is surely to generate the most amount of participation as possible?? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The biggest problem with what YNZ did was those choose a s**t boat that didn't fit the brief. There is no doubt we could make a better rule that created a slightly longer and faster boat for the same cost but maybe NZ should just stick to the rules and build some boats. It would be great to have 10 boats racing here. How many people would want to sail one solo?? I would give it a go but would prefer 2 handed. CS do really want to build one of these or are you just stirring s**t? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Fellas,this is starting to get a little off track,have a look at the name of the thread.............Firstly the boat,the mini rule is what dan has designed the boat round to keep in line with an established class,dan has tried to do his design in a way that he belives is cost effective,cool and meets the current rule,remember his boat is an option not the answer,I think we work with the box rule thats in place,tweaked a little(tin mast,sail limitations ect) to suit our selfs,to move forward I think we need to work on how we rule it then the build process will sort its self out. Secondly its about getting an event going here in the Pacific,but first we need boats............ My take is we work with the established rule,nail it down to suit what we are trying to achieve and keep moving forward,all this bickering aint really helping sort out if this can take off,personally my take is,if we can get this going a few euros might even do it,think about it,cheap ply boat with good coverage round NZ,Oz Pac and asia,but we need to get it moving here. Hands up all thoughs that want to move forward.............. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Is there any advantage to getting all those interested in a room one evening and having a discussion. I would vote that the boat should be class legal, seems silly to do otherwise. If you want to add limitations maybe, but it should be easy and cheap to switch back to class legal. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Oh brother! In my view everyone can express an opinion however those who are actually putting in the $ and effort to design and build 'em have the right to decide what rules are employed. Everyone else should just shut up! Thoughts Booboo? Let's get the discussion back on track. so wat you are saying is this THREAD is closed to peole who want to... offer advice consider the options before commiting built a boat but want to ensure themselves of the fact / options and discuss the true viability Outboard, are you building? will you not cooment in other threads if your not directly involved? telling proplr to shut up because they have a opinion that is not like yours is pathetic and offersnothing to the great debate that this thread is! out of all these comments something great could evolve but not with inane comment like yours! I am very interested in building one! and want to do it cheaply and for the fun of it!... but according to you and KM people like me don't count as we want a cheaper option and to race locally! OK CS I'll bite. In order of questions: No. Although dopy advice is obviously counter productive as it dilutes the momentum a serious proposal will generate. No. No. But there are some people who are contributing to this thread who appear to have been analysing this class for a long time and are well informed and thus thier input comes from an informed perspective rather than just bandying wild ideas around the place so I tend to put more weight on their viesw rather than those of others who weaken the thrust of this thread. I am interested in building but, because of other commitments, the circa $85k price is too prohibitive for a full on 650 so I'm more likely to get involved in a cheaper down-scale design which could act as a feeder to the "big boys" in the 650s. Rather than try to undermine what's being acheived here to suit my needs I am biting my tounge but observing with interest. Maybe in the future the 650 will be a step up for me. Call me mysterious but maybe I will and maybe I won't. Not a question but a statement. My "shut up" statement was tongune in cheek. Get over it and stop name calling. We'll see won't we? That makes two of us but if a sensible status quo rule set precludes my invovlement cost-wise I'm not inclined to screw the scrum in my direction. Who said you don't count. Not me sunshine (although to suggest that KM is trying to promote an unaffordable rule set is wide of the mark). Happy? Agreed that we should move on? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I just wanted to claim post #100 Link to post Share on other sites
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