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Compulsory lifejackets


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I have just sent this to YNZ - be interesting to see their reply.

 

Hi, no doubt you are aware of proposed legislation re Compulsory lifejackets and the concern of boating people regarding this topic.

I for one am opposed to this as unnecessary and a huge inconvenience to cruising in NZ waters specially for going ashore in sheltered anchorages.

 

I would just ask that you view the thread on crew.org to see comments there from concerned sailors. I know some of the comments are rather radical but it does show a general theme of disquiet with what may be passed in to law.

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Hi David,

As discussed, YNZ do not support compulsory wearing of lifejackets/PFD’s on vessels under 6m as broad brush rule; we believe skipper discretion should be promoted.

As far as the National Pleasure Boat Safety Forum goes, YNZ lobbies our position (which is the same as that of Maritime New Zealand), that skippers should have the ability to decide when lifejackets can be taken off on vessels under 6m. There are groups on the forum that support compulsory wearing, Water Safety New Zealand (for vessels under 4m), Water Safe Auckland and some of the regional councils.

Many of the regional councils differ in what they require under their Navigation Safety Bylaws. Some require mandatory wearing of lifejackets on vessels under 6m now (Off the top of my head Waikato, Canterbury, Queenstown).

We are aware that Auckland Council are looking at the compulsory option, which both the AYBA and YNZ do not support. We have had dialogue with the council, however they will put out what they want in the end and it will be up to groups like ours and individuals to make submissions (and speak to them) to put our point across with well supported arguments.

Happy to provide some input.

Cheers

Andrew

Andrew Clouston | Participation and Development Manager | Yachting New Zealand

P 09 361 4021 I M 027 492 4847| E andrew@yachtingnz.org.nz

www.yachtingnz.org.nz

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I re-read the submission by the forum and with this information from YNZ their points stands out in the submission where before it seemed a little vague or open to policing abuse if people didnt wear a life jacket in safe conditions. With YNZ pushing the view of skippers responsibility I hope that it passes through but that they also increase their education on safe boating as that is the most important thing in my opinion.

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http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/news/medi ... -407614314

 

Maritime New Zealand (MNZ) supports a move to make the wearing of lifejackets compulsory for people under 15, and continues to encourage everyone on the water to wear lifejackets at all times.

 

The move to make lifejackets compulsory for young people, the subject of a private member’s bill from National MP Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga, is similar to legislation already enacted in the United States, US Coast Guard Chief of Boating Safety Jeff Hoedt says.

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Bureaucracy are so fucked up.

 

I was driving to the orifice earlier and went past 1 guy 4 odd meters off the side of the road using a weed-eater. But in the name of safety he had 2 guys moving cones as he moved along the grass, and 2 guys sitting in what had to have been 250K, probably more, worth of 2 trucks very slowly moving those along with the cones.

 

But no one says Boo when we let our 6, 7 and 8 year olds walk to school within a meter of the same road.

 

There's something knot right there, or people who use weedeaters are soft cocked pussies with smaller balls than a 6yo school girl.

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sigh...if you are in a small open boat, why wouldnt you just wear one ? Its not like they are in anyway bulky or uncomfortable.

The stats are just too obvious, small open boat, booze, lack of imediate weather knowlege.

 

Its to late for us here, because I now on my full ocean going close to cat one, 12 m yacht have to wear a life jacket on the calmest of days if I am solo........in the bay.

2 m seas, that I consider a calm offshore passage, may compromise a tinny.....

 

You need to think carefully about what you are fighting about, and against.

 

You may be better off making sure that the rules aplly too...and encourage that, the vessels most in danger before you get a blanket rule like ours.

 

So called skippers choice just isnt going to work.

It dosnt create anymore responsibility than what exists in your situtuation at the present.

 

EDIT....

why dont you agree with small boat life jacket rules as normal, but insist on "as a tender vessel, close to shore , on the masters exceptance that life jackets may not be worn, BUT, must be carried"...

 

If you have traveled to shore on a calm sea...and never had to travel back on a rougher one...you aint spent enough time cruising !!

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From Sail World

 

But Maritime New Zealand Director Keith Manch said making the wearing of lifejackets compulsory for young people would help create more water-wise adults in the future.

 

'We believe everyone going out on the water should wear lifejackets. While this is particularly important at times of heightened risk, such as when crossing a bar, in rough weather, or for non-swimmers, accidents can happen at any time,' he said. 'Making lifejacket wearing compulsory for those under 15 would not only send a strong message to anyone responsible for the safety of young people on the water, but should instil in young people the need to be safe on the water. That is a message we hope they will hold on to as adults.

 

 

http://www.sail-world.com/index.cfm?Nid ... d=39&rid=6

 

 

So sad.

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not everyone that drowns does because they chose that option, if there was a bit more focus on kids there would be a few more around, better in an orphanage than a cemetery.

 

and before you get all excited i'm not talking about yachties crossing oceans or even going ashore in their dinghy, I'm thinking of the kids that get dragged along with dad in his 'new' boat for $80 off trade me. if a few more people took notice and said something maybe at least the kids would have a channce,

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I wonder if he was trapped inside by his lifejacket?

 

has that ever happened in a small boat? as kids we used to swim back and forth underneath capsized dinghies with lifejackets on, no big deal.

 

I've heard others on hear expressing their view that a lifejacket would trap them under a 3m rib, cant actually see that myself and would be interested to know if any have actually tired it or its just some bs to be anti lifejacket staunch

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Can easily happen. Not if you have a little open dinghy so much.

 

But some people are not strong enough swimmers to swim down while wearing a lifejacket.

 

It's actually incredibly hard.

 

Any boat with a cabin can be a very fast deathtrap when you get tangled up underneath with all the other crap that's floating around. Lifejackets help you get caught in all that crap.

 

Compulsory for kids under 15? My mind is not made up on that yet. Maybe... SImilar to my, "every kid gets a free lifejacket idea"

 

Most important is to teach those kids water sense. Water sense has nothing to do with lifejackets.

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I think many people would not be able to force a modern 150N lifejacket below the surface to get out from below any boat. Some could, many not. I'll try it this summer out of interest... :D

 

 

ok, to be fair I was thinking of fixed buoyancy, and at the cheap end of the market there are plenty

 

have seen 275N inflatable , you could probably carry the boat above your head with that on :lol:

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Can easily happen. Not if you have a little open dinghy so much.

 

But some people are not strong enough swimmers to swim down while wearing a lifejacket.

 

It's actually incredibly hard.

 

Any boat with a cabin can be a very fast deathtrap when you get tangled up underneath with all the other crap that's floating around. Lifejackets help you get caught in all that crap.

 

Compulsory for kids under 15? My mind is not made up on that yet. Maybe... SImilar to my, "every kid gets a free lifejacket idea"

 

Most important is to teach those kids water sense. Water sense has nothing to do with lifejackets.

 

 

agree cabins do change the picture, but in regards sinking or capsizing open boats tend to be where more idiots drown from,

 

also if someones not water confident are they likely to try and swim down and away rather than fight to get up under the boat? again, not talking about you and I but the guy that just saw a wreck of a dinghy and bought it to take the family out fishing

 

glad you said "water sense" as being able to swim doesn't have that much to do with not drowning either

 

and I think your free lifejacket for under 15's is great :thumbup:

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Ending up in the water because "dads" tinny flips....and neading to tread water for an hour, has nothing to do with "water sense"......

 

So how about, given the stasistics, ....that you have to have some kind of swiming certificate ?

 

After all that is realy what this is about.

Like it or lump it. The boffins have found a high risk group.

They, even if I dont like it,are right.

As I have said so many times, be carefull...

The easiest way for legislators is to do a blanket rule without understanding other situations. Unless you both agree to the facts......and explain why you are not part of that group, you will get caught up in the broader laws.

If you keep arguing for universal rights, the money people are going to take you down.

By virtue, you will be the same people as the nuff.nuff in the tinny with an esky and three kids and no life jackets.

Isnt it so much better too agree with some parts, and make sure that other parts of future legislation dont become to ounerous ?

 

I say this again knowing what has hapened to us.

If you honestly think you have the power to stop it, (and the push from the insurance comapanies) then VIVA the revolution.

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Ending up in the water because "dads" tinny flips....and neading to tread water for an hour, has nothing to do with "water sense"......

 

Not saying it does.

 

But as a generational thing, kids who are taught more water sense are less likely to follow their Dads to a watery grave.

 

Last thing I want is for children to grow up and become parents who think that as long as their kid has a lifejacket they will be safe. Or even for the parents to think it now.

 

My father was far more upset when we stood up in the dinghy than if we were wearing a lifejacket...

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we generally learn by mistakes (among other methods) for a kid where someone else is in the middle of a steep learning curve, if the child can float they are going to have a better chance of learning the lesson and applying in in the future.

 

Lifejackets aren't a cure all, totally agree, but when you are dealing with boat owners at the very bottom end of the learning curve on things like what the weather forecast means and how many people can you fit into this 10ft tinny? they do give them a good option of trying to do a better job next time

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Sorry Dr,

I am more pragmatic than that.

Kids in general have very differant water skills. (even with swimming lessons).

Some float...some sink. Some pannick,,some are dolphins.

Some swim at speed but have no chance at staying afloat in a tread water for an hour situation.

Others are just slow moving bubbles.

Some are just concrete blocks.

 

I dont for a second say that the above lessons the need for the "skipper" to maintain all the reasonable rules.

 

BUT...small boats are very vunerable...why is it that there is such a reluctance to except that ?

A small "rogue wave" on my vessel is just annoying...for a tinny ..you are in the water.

...and thats just local, coastal.

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