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Famous schooner Nina


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Same again David!

 

My understanding is no, caulking is not black. Caulking was the process of caulking between the planks, normally hammered in with a caulking iron, traditionally using hemp. It was finally sealed using pitch on the top, hence some people thought caulking was black...

 

I've never heard of nogging. Or even anything that could be close to that word. What was he thinking of? Anyone else? Any traditional shipwrights out there?

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Noggin is a horizontal , usually 4x2, member in a stud wall ie in between the studs. Its an Ozzie term well at least used there. To do with the building trade, Never heard the term in relation to boat work before this.

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It seems that a extensive air search has already taken place for the Nina and debris drift pattern data is now the focus of the present searches from Ninety Mile Beach through to the Three Kings. Who knows what conditions those on board the Nina would have struck at sea in the worst of the weather at that time.I had a good look over her whilst she was moored at Whangarei basin.Quite a unusual schooner rig with the main mast considerably taller than the mizzen. I desperately hope that this does work out for those on board and would idiots like Mr Turtle take his black caulked nogged failed glue structures and stuff them where the sun does not shine.

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Same again David!

 

My understanding is no, caulking is not black. Caulking was the process of caulking between the planks, normally hammered in with a caulking iron, traditionally using hemp. It was finally sealed using pitch on the top, hence some people thought caulking was black...

 

I've never heard of nogging. Or even anything that could be close to that word. What was he thinking of? Anyone else? Any traditional shipwrights out there?

 

Caulking could have any number of brews over the cotton or the hemp or oakum used , hammered in with a caulking iron and caulking hammer as you say.

It could be pitch, particularly on a deck ,but plank seams would often be putty, maybe mixed with some red or white lead... the shipwright or boatbuilders preference of poison.

As the languge changes and is adapted over time ,as one technology is eclipsed by another, caulk now typically means the sikaflex or whatever poly goo is used to fill out a seam .

 

Nogging?... oh no, pass the aspirin and get out the defibrilator, I'm starting again.

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Looks like it was not built in 1928 but 2004,

"based on the original 1928 Schooner, Niña that was the winner of the Queen's Cup in 1928"

 

http://www.classicyacht.info/modules/yachts/Ninita-TClass-yachts_detail-1587.html

 

 

No , this is Nina. Ninita is the replica, the 'based on' one.

I'm looking at her lines and sailplan as we speak . Uffa Fox's, Sailing Seamanship and Yacht design.

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Ok, so I'm not the only one! Thats good BB!

That item would be a dwang in NZ then - in a house!

 

From Wellington or somewhere like that south it would be a dwang.

For some reason the north of the north island call them nogs.

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Full telly news here,

Latest statement (on the telly) that AMSA has still not been asked to do a local search.

 

Full all vessel watch now, for life raft, or debri.

Knowing how serious OZ rescue takes this stuff, the media may be slow, or not know the full story.

 

The time frame, no becon activation, bad weather, and cold water temps are not good.

I can only put myself in that situation and hope that I am still bouyant and found.

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think the closest thing to glue in the base construction of this work of art would have been whitelead, tallow pitch or a combination of, integrity of construction and availability was such that glues either didn't exist or were not required. Iron( iron not steel) fastenings in the form of driven drifts (pop a washer on and bash the head of the drift so it don't come off) as well as threaded ends using a nut and washer were common in stem and backbone construction though bronze was also used however neither of these materials have an endless life and some, particularly in the backbone are very well hidden and once they start to "work" you aint going to stop them (Fossil jump in any time here) Think the reference to nogs may be to do with seam and batten construction which was not all the common on larger boats. Diagonal bracing of the planking on American craft was often different in design and application to what we commonly used at the time ......the Ashcroft system which consisted of 2 thinner diagonal planks overlaid with a 3rd fore and aft which was caulked with oakum and putty to "take up" or swell and make the total as tight as a drum but who really knows just how the total base construction of this race boat ( and yes in 1928 you can bet they understood the difference between a raceboat and a workboat weightwise) was achieved however you can also bet the scantlings were pretty generous by todays standards and the whole was constructed by artisans. Lastly, in the words of Gordon Lightfoot " Does anyone know where the love of god goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours...? "

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Sounds like something catastrophic happened

 

Their only hope is floating around in a liferaft and forgot to bring the EPIRB, Sat Phone, Spot which is unlikely...

 

The question is was the weather forecast and if so why did they leave or not take avoiding action earlier on. An press interview with Bob McD would be interesting.

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I sent this to Bob McDavitt:

 

Hi Bob

 

Do you mind explaining something for us?

 

What was the forecast when they left, i.e. was there a point at which they

could have made a decision to stay, or run for cover?

Also in one of the news reports it said they were asked not to leave - was

that you? Or someone else? Do you know?

 

Cheers

 

David

 

 

And got this reply

 

Hi there David

 

I don't have any knowledge of what weather forecast they had when they left, or if they were asked not to leave--- I just don't know.

When Evi contacted me on Sat phone on 3 June that was the first time I was informed of their predicament.

 

I have loaded the grib files that were available on May 28th and used these to work out what a forecast issued on 28may for a departure on 29th May for a vessel doing around 150 mpd (NINA may have been going faster in a good breeze being a 2 mast schooner)

 

Such a forecast would have captured the Low but with wrong timing having it further west. It would have captured the NW gales on the east side of the low that NINA reported to me on 3 June, and the 8 metre SW swells on the west side of the Low.

 

It would not have captured the SW storm winds on the immediate west side of the Low- at that stage the forecast would have been just strong to gale southerly--- however the peak of that southerly storm was 6am Tuesday and I did forecast that for them on Mon 3 June and their last txt was sent at 9:39am Tuesday. The first time that started appearing in the models was

.

 

Hard to work out in hind sight when the forecast would have shifted from go to stay to run for cover. My forecast was basically a tweak of their position into the centre of the Low and then stay put until southerly gale and southerly swells came and went. On the Tuesday, they shifted from going to staying put. At that stage near 400 miles off WNW of NZ at 150 mpd the idea of running for cover (in other words heading back to NZ) wouldn’t work (they'd get hit by the southerly storm anyway). At a quick guess I'd say that a forecast update on Sat 1 or Sun 2 June would have captured the details of the southerly storm and been that last possible timing for a 'run for cover' strategy to work. On Monday when I got the call a 'run for cover' would have prolonged their period in the southerly storm compared with the 'stay put' forecast which I gave them.

 

Here, in hind sight and using just rough estimated position reports are the outcomes of a 'run for cover' forecast issued on Sun 2 and Mon 3 June

Both show the forecast isobars for 4 Jun 00UTC

SUNDAY run for cover

 

 

MONDAY run for cover

 

 

Expected position at that time is shown by small red circle (ignore the time code label),

Background small arrows are surface current (not much)

Blue/green shading is rain.

7 and 8 lines are boundaries significant metre swell height.

1012 line is an isobar.

Grid of larger arrows shows coloured wind barbs

Red arrows along path show winds forecast along the way

-one barb is 10 knots and half is 5.

 

_______________________

 

Here are the contacts that I had with Evi Nemeth on the SV Nina.

 

Mon 3 June

Evi Nemeth (whom I had done forecasting for on SV Wonderland) called me via sat phone from SV NINA during afternoon, and I got her to call me back in 30mins, downloaded some weather data and, when she called back, passed on the following forecast, then I sent it by txt and email to 881623425743@mag.iridium.com

At 416pm

Go south to 34S. NW wind eases. By 9pm tonight local heave-to, brace for SW storm 50 knots g 75 knots. bob

Swell is forecast to rise to around 7 ocnl 10 metres during Tuesday noon to 6pm local.. more..

4:17pm

Late Tuesday the wind and swell should ease, ,Ok to resume to west . Bob

 

Tue 4 June

From Evi, received at 9:39am

ANY UPDATE 4 NINA? WE R 33 54 S 165 18 E,3.5KT 310DEG -EVI

My reply at 11:25am

Stay hove-to until around 6pm Wednesday. SW wind peak at 45 g60kt was around 6am today- Peak swell 8 significant m around 9pm tonight Tuesday.

 

Thu 6 June

My call at 1:02pm

Swell should be easing now, OK to go west. But another front 071800UTC/Sat am local with strong NW then near gale SW until 081200UTC

 

Fri 7 June

My call at 2:39pm

How is weather and progress today? bob

Also tried to call their sat phone but it was offline

 

Then on Sun 9 June Curly of SV Wonderland on 3dn6593@sailmail.com (text emails only) got in touch with me asking what contact I had with Evi/NINA, as they were then out of touch and concerned.

 

At that stage we were hoping the lost comms was just due to a wet radio/satphone. They have an emergency beacon and it hasn’t yet been deployed.

 

When their latest likely ETA in Australia arrived last Sunday concern outweighed expectation and Rescue Coordination Centre started searching.

So far nothing has been found. We still have our fingers crossed for them.

 

 

Thanks to Bob (http://www.metbob.com/) and fo r the pretty pictures - http://www.expeditionmarine.com/

post-3043-141887221999.jpg

post-3043-141887222001.jpg

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a fraction more information today.

 

There was another text which did not get delivered, but was released by the Sat' Phone company, Iridium. Unfortunately it was sent out on June 3rd too.

"Storm sails shredded last night, now under bare poles,going 4kts 310 degrees, will text again at 6PM".

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a fraction more information today.

 

There was another text which did not get delivered, but was released by the Sat' Phone company, Iridium. Unfortunately it was sent out on June 3rd too.

"Storm sails shredded last night, now under bare poles,going 4kts 310 degrees, will text again at 6PM".

 

Bugger.

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8876799/Missing-yacht-Nina-still-afloat-father

 

In the same article but on a different rescue...

In 1974 an amateur-built ferro-cement yacht, Sospan Fach, sailing from Auckland to Sydney ran into Middleton Reef.

 

The yacht with five people aboard had a toy compass and a lifeboat for one. Their trip had been planned on the basis that Australia was too big to miss. In the end they remained stranded on the reef for six weeks and were only accidently spotted by a passing vessel.

:shock:
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