Navigation Systems and current technology

[Island Time 1,235]

There has been a bit of discussion lately about Phones, Tablets, Laptops etc. Here are my current thoughts about each device - if using good examples of each technology;

 

Nav Devices Pros and Cons

 

Traditional Plotter

• Good screen and resolution, good sunlight view

• Range of Mounting options

• Limited connection types

• Limited Storage and charts

• Limited upgrades, often return to supplier for firmware

• Expensive to replace

• Often locked to one manufacturer

• Not easily portable

 

Traditional Plotter with overlays

• Good screen and resolution, good sunlight view

• Range of mounting options

• Good/Great functionality, radar overlays, weather overlays (sometimes)

• Limited Storage and Charts

• Limited upgrades, often return to supplier for firmware

• Expensive to replace

• Usually locked to one Manufacturer

• Not easily portable

 

Laptop

• Good screen and resolution, Limited sunlight view.

• Great functionality, chart plotter with radar overlays, weather overlays, Pilot chart overlays, instrument integration, virtual instruments, trending, virtually unlimited storage, huge range of charts by multiple manufacturers, some free.

• Unlimited upgrades, often just connected to internet and download

• Very Cheap to replace – can carry a spare, ready to go.

• Connects to almost anything from any manufacturer

• Choice of operating system

• Can run remote screen (ie in cockpit), waterproof and sunlight viewable

• Can ran vast array of software in addition – email, internet, office suite, movies etc

• Can connect to printer and print charts as required

• Wifi and Bluetooth connections

• Some functions require boat power (radar, external GPS etc)

• Not waterproof (normally)

• Portable

 

 

PC

• Same as Laptop, but with choice of monitors, multiple screens etc.

• 12v or 24v units

• More expensive than a laptop

• More difficult to replace in event of a failure

• Requires boat power

• Not waterproof

• Not easily portable

 

Tablet

• Good screen and resolution, Limited sunlight view.

• Limited Screen size (some)

• Goes flat / needs charging. May go flat just when you really need it!

• Low power requirement

• Basic plotter in self contained unit

• Does not work well with wet/damp fingers

• NOT (normally) water resistant, should not be used on deck

• Easy to drop, slippery on fiberglass

• Very Cheap to replace

• Limited software available on both Android and Apple (for Navigation)

• Choice of operating system

• Can ran vast array of software in addition – email, internet, office suite, movies etc

• Portable around boat, or to another vessel

• Not connectable to boats systems without wifi multiplexor

• Does not function well with Radar overlays even over wifi

 

Phone

• The worst Screen for navigating due to size, but good resolution, Limited sunlight view.

• Goes flat / needs charging. May go flat just when you really need it!

• Basic Plotter in self contained unit

• Does not work well with wet/damp fingers

• Some (Motorola Defy, Sony Xperia, Samsung Xcover) water resistant, can be used on deck

• Easy to drop, slippery on fibreglass

• Very Cheap to replace

• Limited software available on both Andriod and Apple

• Choice of operating system

• Can ran vast array of software in addition – email, internet, office suite, movies etc

• Very portable!

• Not connectable to boats systems without wifi multiplexor

• Screen is too small for radar overlays, and connection issues for Radar

[Grinna 2]

No consideration for paper charts, parallel rules, dividers and pencils?? Would they be listed under "manual chart plotting" perhaps?

 

Potential pros:

No power requirements

Excellent sunlight visibility

Relatively cheap

Relatively simple and cheap to upgrade

Reasonably portable

Bulky storage

Limited connectivity

[Island Time 1,235]

Hardly modern technology! But, you asked!

 

Of course, within the large and diverse group of sailors, there are some who prefer the traditional navigational methods, with paper charts, dividers, chronometer , sextant and sight reduction tables. It’s a proven system over many years, and thousands of voyages. Yet it has its disadvantages. It is slow, gives positions only once or twice a day in good weather, and sometimes not for days in bad. At those times you are on DR. That it is not thoroughly reliable in poor weather, and gives only intermittent fixes is its weakest point, IMO. It also needs dry, readable and up to date tables, and the other equipment to be working as well, so it has some of the weaknesses of the electronic nav systems as well.

There are also way more opportunities for human error - transposing numbers etc. Some use a nav computer ( I have one as a backup, and yes, still carry a sextant), but, if using electronics, may as well use a GPS. Just my opinion....

And my post was about pros and cons of modern equipment...

[Grinna 2]

And my post was about pros and cons of modern equipment

 

Yeah, fair enough.

[John B 106]

Interesting topic. I think there's a giant hole there in the market waiting for someone to say you need this and this for yacht navigation in 2013, here it is.

 

I'd comment that 'portability' might be a pro or a con, it means something can go flying and be damaged or lost easier than something thats fixed. I'm imagining Tablet/ winch handle and involuntry immersion. Do you agree?

 

What I'm looking for and will look for as the technology changes is redundancy, backup in other words.

I can't see doing without a fixed plotter, but I need / want something extra in the nav station, probably just a laptop I imagine at this stage, and hooked up to sat ph.. I just can't see a tablet fullfilling that role, but would be good as #3 maybe.

But I totally agree with what you say about overpriced plotters and systems. For me to upgrade mine to get broadband radar for example,it means chucking the plotter plus the sounder module and maybe the through hull?.....starting again. Hard to do when its all working fine.

 

One of the American cruisers I met last year just bought a pair of older refurbished laptops and duplicated all his software etc on both for that reason, seemed sensible, but I don't know how you'd find that here.

Trying to get information from a retailer on what is a suitable boat computer and what software you need and is compatible with open cpn for example, is a *&^^%$#@! nightmare.

[Island Time 1,235]

Nah, its easy! I'll have it all available next week in my online store. Continual issues with my website development contractors meant I've sacked them and gone to mother ship to finish it....so should be next week.

I fail to see why anyone needs a conventional plotter any more....

If anyone would like to have a look at a PC based system in Auckland, send me a pm.

I have a tablet as well, but I don't find it practical, and its vulnerable onboard.

 

Even with a new laptop, a new GPS, you can have a working system for under 900.00. If you want broadband radar, less than 2500. Cheaper if you have a laptop you can use.

 

Oh yeah, rugged tablets with IP 67 waterproof ratings are starting to appear.

[rigger 47]

Hope to be testing a Win 8 tablet shortly, company testing a different product.

 

On the modern nav gear - it is nearly all dependant on GPS for positioning. How easy is it to put a position on the plotter from compass bearings?

[Guest]

ideally a 12 volt PC, waterproof. Screen that can be seen in sunlight. Wi Fi multiplexor and all instrument senders in either nmea 0183 or 2000. I don't like the idea you had IT of a web page system because I use Polar Navy with its instruments and don't want to change and learn a new system.

The 12 volt pc's are available in very small forms and fixed permanently aboard would be great for nav and fun. It could have your music , videos, online stuff, Office software, CAD etc and use very little power.

The Sony Xperia Z 10 inch tablet is waterproof to 1 metre for 30 minutes, memory expandable, and had a screen that is incredible and ought to be sunlight viewable. How long will it be before a fully functional navigation app is available?

Oh and its got a compass!

[Island Time 1,235]

Rigger, no prob to enter bearings to and from waypoints in Open CPN, if you should be unlucky enough to lose your GPS. Other programs may be different.

 

GPS redundancy; I have a fixed boat GPS (Furuno GP32), the AIS transponder GPS is an online backup, a garmin handheld as a spare/liferaft GPS, and can also use the bluetooth GPS in my waterproof cell phone if I want. There are normally 4 GPS units on board at any time. 2 of these are battery powered and waterproof.... I guess if they are all faulty, it's because the GPS system is down!

 

BBay, everyone likes what they know. You certainly can use a wifi multiplexor. They are quite easy to overload with data, and the ones I have tried don't cope with Radar and AIS. But technology moves on real fast... If you don't want radar overlays (a mistake in my opinion, as it is a double check on your chart plotters accuracy) the multiplexor may be the solution for you.

 

A ruggedised laptop will provide all that you have asked, with the addition of an external screen and wireless keyboard. I looked at the waterproof issue, and decided to try a standard office laptop, and carry a spare. They are really cheap... most have external monitor ports.

 

You can certainly use a 12v marine PC, that can have solid state drives, and be mounted in a waterproof case. It's a cool system, but is a lot more expensive to buy and to upgarde at a later date. How wet is the inside of your boat? I've been using a office laptop in Island Time for over 10 years (well, ok, 4 different ones now). The only issues I've had is one overheating due to dust and internal CPU fan problems, and one that got wet when I left it under an open hatch!

 

What suits one person, may not suit another. I'm just trying to point out what can be done, and, in some cases, why I chose what I did... Everyone must make their own selections....

[Island Time 1,235]

Also BB, you can use MXmariner now on that tablet. It is a functional chartplotter and AIS Display. Personally I would not allow any device to run my autopilot wireless, so I would not use it as the primary Nav device... but that's just me! And it would be a great backup!

[Jon 360]

For me it's a fixed Chartploter and tablet

Then paper charts plus handheld gps as backup

I do have a laptop also but haven't used it since I got the tablet.

The big upside of the tablet is you can usually get free wifi ashore and just put it in your back pack and your off

As for water proofing either a lifecase or bag type then either fix it to the bulkhead or I often hang it around my neck inside my ww gear for the tricky bits

Other than that I like a electronic compass to steer to or even the autopilot, lets face it there aren't a lot of corners in the ocean.

[Guest]

I've chatted to IT about this before and do know IT will forget more than I will ever know about lectronic nav stuff. While I do have a growing case of technophobia I keep thinking everyone must be diving into all this pad, ph blaa blaa etc navigation for a reason, one I can't quite work out.

 

I'm planing on a offshore next year in me little baby and are working on having a chartplotter but that's purely as a bonus to the AIS I do very much want. I know and have used a plotter that has a AIS transponder built into it so I'm thinking why just buy AIS when for the same bucks I can have both. So that's one GPS to go with 2 handhelds, 3 if Otto turns around at the wrong moment. Plus all the paper charts etc. I'm even toying with taking my sextant.

 

Why would I want more and why would I want anything more portable??

 

I may very well need more or more portable but buggered if I can think why. What am I missing or is it just a case of me being more of an old school Luddite than I realise.

[Island Time 1,235]

The issue with a fixed plotter, is that it is not normally visible from the helm. Not an issue in open water, but when in busy or unfamiliar coastal water, it is very comforting to know exactly where you are at every moment.

Some want to use a tablet for this. Again, most tablets will need recharging after not that many hours being used, esp if WiFi is on and active.

To this end, I installed a cockpit screen, waterproof, sunlight viewable, that duplicates everything from below. I have plotter, radar, aid etc all directly in front of the helm, on the binnacle. Also, when anchored, it flips over and becomes our outdoor cinema!

Some will use a tablet for that...

None of that matters for you KM, a fixed plotter with A is will work fine for you. I've picked up the Chinese ones you mentioned, so let me know when you want to look at the various models...

[Chewing Gum 17]

I still like our lowrance 7in plotter /sounder. It is reliable even though often drowned in salt spray. Ok it wasn't cheap but it has been good value with about 5 years of use so far. The fact that it has depth and is connected to ships power so no charging is a plus. We have it at the helm and able to swivel 180 so we can still see it in the cockpit when on autopilot. We do have a laptop system as backup and also a Garmin handheld.

[idlerboat 116]

As I have mentioned and others...

most of the time if you are not racing, the chart plotter needs to be down below.

My solution (which I do understand is not so easy for others (( I designed my lot from start up)), is to have the chartplotter visible from the helm position....even though it is below. In my case its a simple swivel that goes from pilot berth, to nav station to facing up the companion way.

Others here have since made more complicated mounts.

If the sea state is too rough for this....you should stand off anyway. (Losing your specs (serious) is a far worst senario !

I would also suggest with no humbleness whatsoever.....

DONT tie your whole nav, boat systems up into one system.

You are just asking for "one out all out"

A simple independant fishfinder, is a good example....if all else fails, you have two pieces of data, One..your critical depth, and two, you can follow depth lines on your paper chart.

Redundacy of systems is so important.

No differant than having TWO sextants if that is what you wish.

[Duty Free 2]

Island Time --do you have a photo of this cockpit set up as l want to have this arrangement .When l bought DF it had a a fixed CP in the cockpit and a second one at the chart table !!! But its only the helm who can see it ( even with the light right down its very bright at night ) and we would like to be able to turn it around/over for the crew to look at etc

 

 

 

"To this end, I installed a cockpit screen,...... Also, when anchored, it flips over and becomes our outdoor cinema"

[Island Time 1,235]

Been meaning to take one or two for my website. I'll do so and come back...

[John B 106]

most of the time if you are not racing, the chart plotter needs to be down below.

 

Why's that Idler? It never occurred to me to do anything other than have the plotter at the helm.

[Chewing Gum 17]

have to agree there - used to have it below but much more use and safer with plotter at the helm

[Island Time 1,235]

Nah guys, better to have both!! But if one, at the helm is my pick. Here is how it works on island time.

In the pic with the Cockpit screen facing aft, you can see the screen downstairs as well... The Mount is a std VESA monitor mount bought off trademe for $40.00. Its anodeised Alloy, been outside 3 years, now is a bit scruffy...