So, the Ipad topic again...

[John B 106]

I had my first experience of Ipad navigation three weeks or so ago. It wasn't bad as a backup I thought . Had some issues mostly around management of the thing...but it gave us some redundancy making our way through Moreton bay at 2 O dark.

But here's the question, same question as last time.

Which Ipad has fully functioning GPS in it? not the cell tower triangulation stuff. What I gather from other threads is that it must be the 3 G unit?

 

Also , it seems to me that newest generation might not necessairily be best for the boat.... which raises another factor . I own a telecom aircard which of course has a sim card in it, a standard sim they say. Can that card be put in one of the generations of IPad.

 

any experiences or advice would be appreciated. In technophobe speak would be good.

[banaari 27]

As far as I can discover, the 3G variants include "true" satellite-derived GPS; the WiFi-only versions do not (although they will provide location services, of a kind).

You will need your provider to supply a _Micro_ SIM for the unit.

 

Expanding on the location theme: The WiFi-only versions use various internet-based tricks to derive a location.

The 3G versions use true GPS in combination with the above plus some cellular-specific trickery. They also do "A-GPS", (assisted) in which some of the ephemeris data normally downloaded slowly from the satellites is instead acquired at speed over your data link... thus speeding up time-to-first fix.

Outside of cell range, they fall back to standard GPS.

 

Biggest annoyance for me was that because the beast has its own SIM, it must have its own data plan which I can't share with other devices, at least not on Telecom.

[Guest]

You don't need a sim card in the 3g unit. The GPS chip is independent to the 3g function although the unit will use cellphone towers to triangulate (even without a sim card). i.e. even in areas of no cellphone coverage, the gps will function. The wifi only model does not have the chip at all.

[John B 106]

Thanks for the clarification on the 3G. the assisted gps thing had me concerned and quite frankly , the people at the outlets just do not comprehend what navigation is.

The point about the sim , if thats the correct terminology, is that I'm paying for the aircard now so if it was interchangable that would be too perfect. And its what one of the look down the nose scoffers at $% told me I could do. So thats untrue for sure?

[banaari 27]

So thats untrue for sure?

Depends on the size of the SIM.

The iPad takes a MicroSIM, which may or may not be what you've got, depending on what you bought it for.

There ARE adapters available (plastic carriers, basically) which will let you use a MicroSIM in a full-sized slot. (But not the other way around, obviously).

Telecom should be able to swap your existing SIM for a MicroSIM on the same account, if asked.

[banaari 27]

ALTERNATIVELY, if you're willing to go out on a limb... you can convert a full-sized SIM to a MicroSIM with some careful cutting. Google.

[JK 28]

The WIFI only devices determine their location based upon what WIFI networks they can discover. Presumably the GPS chip enabled devices report back to Apple with their current location & what networks they can see...

[John B 106]

ah thanks, but nup. The aircard / t stick is still alive.

 

So what I have so far is 3G is a must for the gps.

 

my t stick card thing won't work, forget that, I just though an earlier gen Ipad might take the same unit.

What currently available model and horsepower do you guys think I need for web browsing at home and navionics on the boat. For cost /benefit, Should I be looking at the older models with the traditional Ipod connection or bite the bullet for the latest and greatest. I've heard that the latest nd thinner units are less robust, plus it occurs to me that there is likely to be more covers and cases available for marine in the older types.

[Grinna 2]

The way we've got around the whole 3G sim card thing with our Billy Basic iPad is we've bought a standalone GPS device. It's about the size of 2 packets of chewing gum, has an internal battery and quietly sits there detecting satellites and connecting to the iPad via Bluetooth to tell it where in the world it is. This allows us to use Navionics on the iPad as a backup chart plotter to the Raymarine plotters we have at the Nav station and helm. Apparently these GPS units are used by some pilots to allow iPad navigation ... so it's more than capable of working at speeds appropriate for a sailboat. I think it cost about $80 on Trademe and has no ongoing costs or hassles apart from charging the battery and turning it on when required.

 

If necessary I can get more details on what the GPS unit is.

[ab1974 1]

I have a 3G 16gb iPad 2 and it is plenty for surfing, a few books / videos, music and navigation. I have it housed in a Lifeproof iPad case which is excellent as it is an o-ring sealed case so it can be used outside in the rain / salt spray.

 

I find it much easier to use than my other handheld chartplotter and tend to use it 99% of the time in NZ, with reference to paper charts when required.

[banaari 27]

Similarly, I'm using a 16GB iPad 2, WiFi+3G, with no intention to upgrade.

BUT if I had to replace it for any reason I would get the 128GB iPad Air.

Simply because you can't add more storage once you've bought the thing; and the way the pricing's structured you double the storage each time you add $150.

Which admittedly is a deliberate, evil marketing trap, but one I would walk in to, eyes wide open.

[John B 106]

Thanks Grinna and ab. I think I'd rather it was 'freestanding' and 3G ,even if wasn't connected up. Later on maybe.

I'll look up the prices on the ipad2 thanks.

[tuffyluffy 76]

Any particular reason youre only looking at apple stuff and not android tablets?

 

We used a android tab (with GPS chip, no SIM) for our cruise up the coast last summer and it worked a treat. When we had cell coverage we'd hotspot the tablet to the iphoney for internet access - which wasnt needed for navigation BTW

[ab1974 1]

JB - you don't need to have a sim in the iPad 3G for it to work - can use stand alone GPS and navigation app you have preloaded when connected to wifi.

 

Ie the 3g ipad is the same as the more basic Wifi only iPad but includes a GPS and the ability to connect to the the 3g network for cellular data when you aren't in a wifi spot - but the use of 3g or not is up to you.

[John B 106]

Not really Tuffy, Just that I used it and watched it being used, and they were evangelical types. Also it worked, which is always good.

The problem for people like me is that there's so much product out there it becomes like spam . As I said earlier the retailers are just hopeless , talk a language of their own and have no conception of what navigation out of cell tower range is.

Do you have a suggestion ?

[John B 106]

JB - you don't need to have a sim in the iPad 3G for it to work - can use stand alone GPS and navigation app you have preloaded when connected to wifi.

 

Ie the 3g ipad is the same as the more basic Wifi only iPad but includes a GPS and the ability to connect to the the 3g network for cellular data when you aren't in a wifi spot - but the use of 3g or not is up to you.

 

Yep got that now ab. I'd just rather not have a freestanding gps , just pay a bit more for the 3g unit to get the gps integrated(even if I don't use the 3g part).

[tuffyluffy 76]

Not really Tuffy, Just that I used it and watched it being used, and they were evangelical types. Also it worked, which is always good.

The problem for people like me is that there's so much product out there it becomes like spam . As I said earlier the retailers are just hopeless , talk a language of their own and have no conception of what navigation out of cell tower range is.

Do you have a suggestion ?

 

Haha, I know what you’re saying, their sales patter completely falls to pieces once you mention “no cell coverage”, you can almost see “does not compute” in their eyeballs as they start twitching.

 

I fell out of love with iApple a few years ago after a bad run hence when we were looking for a tablet it was anything but Apple. Lots of hardware options out there, but Id stick with either Samsung or Asus/Nexus hardware IMHO (good quality and plentiful accessories) and the most recent version of Android software – 4.1 I think it’s called. I loaded Navionics from the “play” store (Googles app store) and it works a treat. When comparing position on the tablet, laptop and chart-plotter, there was never any noticeable position discrepancies.

 

I think we bought one of these, or something similar from ASUS about 18months ago and have had zero issues despite the abuse

 

http://www.asus.com/au/Tablets_Mobile/A ... G#overview

[Steve Pope 251]

As a dinosaur who managed to get around the Pacific with a little hand held Garmin + a handheld lowrance H2O as a back up (paper charts under the bunk) I need all the help I can get! I saw other folk with their iPads that seemed to do everything except pour the coffee,

How do the prices and size of areas for nav downloads compare between android (google) and apple?

 

I think I have the choice of which apple iPad sorted, iPad2 X 16gig + 3G + wifi for internet connection, but then someone mentions iPad air 128G??

 

Not so sure with Android as there are so many tablets out there, as an earlier poster says it is like spam, totally confusing, and of course I hadn't heard of Nexus.

[Island Time 1,252]

OK Guys, here is the info! You do not even need the GPS model! If you put in One of these http://www.neptunes-gear.com/collections/electronics/products/zdigwln10hs-nmea-to-wifi-adapter-server-38400-baud and connect it to your boats NMEA, you can have GPS, WIND data, even Autopilot control from your IPAD! If that's what you want....

 

Matt

[ab1974 1]

Yep, keen to talk to you about one of those Matt

 

The great thing about the 3g iPad (and other tablets with GPS) is the simplicity of everything working in one integrated system.

 

Nothing worse than loosing the critical data just at the wrong time due to losing a wifi connection. Having the wifi multiplexor thingy sounds excellent in terms of being able to have other data (wind, speed through water etc), but if it fails having the basic stuff stand alone on an iPad is very nice.