Jump to content

Westhaven berth lease expiry 2026


Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Island Time said:

 

Common usage, like saying 'the dickheads in wellington', everyone knows you mean politicians.

It is physically impossible the cause is on/from the boat itself. Some thing in the area has changed recently and started this.

There's a wee rush on to see what other boats are suffering the same. It was first spotted on Sunday.....which is a right bitch as the big classic regatta is on this weekend but we are now out as we are broken.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Corrosion;

OK, let me make this real clear. For a boat to be damaged by corrosion it has to be part of a circuit. That circuit can be via the water, and out of and back into  (via the water) different bits of immersed metal on the boat. The least noble bit of metal will corrode. That's why anodes are sacrificial anodes, so nothing important is trashed.

You are electrically linked to all other boats on the dock (thru the water), and to the dock itself if it has metal immersed. That is one arm of a potential circuit. The other common arm, completing the circuit, is often the shore power cable earth, hence causing issues when plugged in. This is not necessarily a problem on the dock, but it can be.

If you have no shore power lead, or are protected with a working galvanic isolator or isolating transformer, and you still have corrosion issues, the problem is on your boat as  there is only one connection to the shore (the water), not a circuit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Island Time said:

If you have no shore power lead, or are protected with a working galvanic isolator or isolating transformer, and you still have corrosion issues, the problem is on your boat as  there is only one connection to the shore (the water), not a circuit.

The boat is 108 years old, she was perfectly fine in October, not a single thing has been changed on the boat since before then. There has never ever been any item of any form that connects her to Westhaven bar 3 mooring ropes and the water. The 3 mooring ropes are connected to fittings both ends that terminate in wood, it has not changed for at least a decade possibly closer to a century.

But Westhaven HAS changed a LOT, all within metres of her, since Oct last year.

To suggest the boat has very suddenly decided to change 107 of history at the exact same time the environment she lives in had some very large dramatic changes defies logic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Km do you have new neighbours on the marina??

In panmure a few yrs ago a few of is were chewing through zincs when a new vessel arrived,it had the supposed miracle electric pulse antifoul system,when it departed zincs went back to normal.

Coincidental??

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Island Time said:

If you have no shore power lead, or are protected with a working galvanic isolator or isolating transformer, and you still have corrosion issues, the problem is on your boat as  there is only one connection to the shore (the water), not a circuit.

Can you get stray current corrosion from other boats if you're not connected to shore power and don't have a DC system?

Or are you saying that if you're not connected to Shore power then any stray current corrosion is due to your DC system.

I understood that you had to be either connected to the shore power, and/OR have a faulty DC system...

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, harrytom said:

Km do you have new neighbours on the marina??

In panmure a few yrs ago a few of is were chewing through zincs when a new vessel arrived,it had the supposed miracle electric pulse antifoul system,when it departed zincs went back to normal.

Coincidental??

Yeap. Huge changes and all have a very large electrical components.

I'll get the metre down and around there. It's not the first marina I've had to suss for stray, found all the leaker's eating them so I'm quietly hopeful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Can you get stray current corrosion from other boats if you're not connected to shore power and don't have a DC system?

Or are you saying that if you're not connected to Shore power then any stray current corrosion is due to your DC system.

I understood that you had to be either connected to the shore power, and/OR have a faulty DC system...

No, because you are not connected to them with a circuit. The only common path is the water.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KM... said:

The boat is 108 years old, she was perfectly fine in October, not a single thing has been changed on the boat since before then. There has never ever been any item of any form that connects her to Westhaven bar 3 mooring ropes and the water. The 3 mooring ropes are connected to fittings both ends that terminate in wood, it has not changed for at least a decade possibly closer to a century.

But Westhaven HAS changed a LOT, all within metres of her, since Oct last year.

To suggest the boat has very suddenly decided to change 107 of history at the exact same time the environment she lives in had some very large dramatic changes defies logic.

Well, if the boat has no other connection to the dock, the marina is not at fault. The most common issue I find doing corrosion surveys is a bilge pump with failed insulation, standing in bilge water. To say nothing has changed is stretching it a bit. Things corrode, insulation fails, sometimes circuits are left powered on, or switches/circuit breakers fail. Shorts etc happen. All these things are fine until they are not.

The easy path is to blame the marina - which almost all owners try to do. Remember than stray current corrosion is really a DC phenomenon  - the reason that the AC ground matters is because it is connected to the boat DC. Whatever you think, you can't change physics. If the boat is isolated from the dock electrically, the issue is on the boat.

Anyway, don't guess. Use a ref electrode, and measure. It's normally not too hard to find.

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, KM... said:

You not reading properly again IT.

Its pretty simple, either the boat has an electrical connection to the dock, or the issue is on board. Please explain where Ive mistaken your post/s...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adrianp said:

I'm guessing this 108yo beauty has no electronics whatsoever?

What is the damage its showing KM?

 

So no engine, no nav or any other lights, no battery at all???

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Island Time said:

So no engine, no nav or any other lights, no battery at all???

Correct.

There is literally more electrical things contained and happening in your little finger than the boat.

That's why everyone is scratching their heads while muttering WTF???

4 hours ago, Adrianp said:

I'm guessing this 108yo beauty has no electronics whatsoever?

What is the damage its showing KM?

You guess accurately Grasshopper. Not even a watch as they are not allowed. Analogue maybe, digital definitely aren't. I must suss that, I tend to start like Ineos i.e a tad crappie ;)

Centerboard, was 10mm plate steel 6 months ago and for the last 15 years, is down to 1mm in places and is super duper shiny. It's fizzy shiny not dragged thru the mud shiny. On taking it back yesterday any place the water has managed to get past the coatings is pitted, much very deeply. On the end where they do get used as depth sounders, Sorry seabed by Taikata last week, it as cluster.

Boats, huge fun yet total bastards and at the same time.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, Yep that is uncommon.

How about a bonding system? Metal thru Hulls?

I'm thinking that the boat might offer less resistance than the water, and a stray current might by running thru it as part of a circuit.... If the centreboard is pitted, then that's the exit point. There must be an entry point somewhere. Current can't flow without a circuit. 

So, does the corrosion occur at coating imperfections, and have a dimple in the center - like this;

image.png

This is an example of AC corrosion - Ive never seen a boat suffer from that, but this is an unusual case. Really requires a corrosion specialist (not me!!) to identify, but it would be good to understand the mechanism once it is found.

Most boat issues are DC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes it sure is, that's what there is so much head scratching going on.

No thru hulls.

Yeap anywhere the water touched bare metal....fizzzzzzzz. Sort of like your photo but the metal is fizzed away.

Other boats are sussing today and over the weekend so we may find out more in a day or 2.

When I was giving her a bum wash for Mahurangi I did notice the concrete pontoons are eroded maybe 20-25mm and some reinforcing is visible. At the time I do remember thinking 'Crap, will I now glow in the dark. Hmm.. that's cleaner reinforcing that I would have expected'. At the time the fizzing in the boat had yet to be discovered.  So maybe there is something in the water, some freaky coincidental chemical mix that's having a crack. Maybe we're seeing a 'coin in a glass of Coke' type action.

It's all very weird. The scary thing is the speed at which metal has disappeared. If not picked up for another few months we could be sailing along quite happy and have a 'keel fall off' like situation. While we know we can fall over and sink we tend to know when that's likely to happen (big winds, big chilly bins, being muppets and the like) but if she just fell over randomly that could end in funerals.

Lets see what a weekend of sussing and some wondering with the metre comes up with. In the meantime we decided the board has to come out so off to do that now.....and take a template just in case. Just plate steel so not tricky to replace luckily.

Back in Monday hopefully and then I'll clip a wire with anode on the top of the board and throw that over the side as a just in case.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the concrete pontoons are through to metal, that is saying something.

Are you near that fancy new walkway with the steel piles driven into the corrosive sludge? That walkway would be a genius way to conduct stray currents and secretly sabotage your boat...

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/02/2021 at 4:36 PM, Fish said:

If the concrete pontoons are through to metal, that is saying something.

Are you near that fancy new walkway with the steel piles driven into the corrosive sludge? That walkway would be a genius way to conduct stray currents and secretly sabotage your boat...

Do you mean the promenade that cost $21 million dollars and has been held up since new by a $100 acro prop?

Yes about 3m from it, about 10m from the acro prop .

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, KM... said:

Do you mean the promenade that cost $21 million dollars and has been held up since new by a $100 acro prop?

Yes about 3m from it, about 10m from the acro prop .

 

Yes, thats the one. I'm have no particular knowledge with material corrosion, but I do understand that you don't need oxygen to corrode metals, and burying steel in marine sludge's just doesn't sound flash. Chlorides and sulphates / sulphites can eat away at all sorts of stuff with oxygen. Wouldn't be hard to set up a wee version of a lead acid battery if I didn't know better. I can't describe the specifics, but I do know you have some basic ingredients for a Macgiver style battery if you need one... And if you have a battery, you have some DC current.

If the concrete has corroded to bare reho, well, that is telling a big story. Concrete corrosion is driven by chloride ions I believe (may be wrong though). The disassociated form of sodium chloride.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...