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Another question for cruisers


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While stuck on dirt I think a lot about "the next boat". One conclusion I have reached is that the cost of purchase/build , while important, is less likely to kill the big plan than the cost of ongoing use/maintenance.

Huh? Well, I have always bought/built during times of employment, once you leave, unless you are very wealthy, there will be a budget, and it tends to be boat items that thrash it.

 

So- if you were starting from scratch what would/could you design into the boat to make it cheaper to operate?

 

Here's my list

1) Keep it small, get the smallest boat you can get away with , not the biggest you can afford - costs go up as a cube of length.

2) Have less "stuff". Expensive to run stuff like a watermaker, a generator, fridge freezer, HF radio. electronics. hot water tank, holding tank, more than one toilet, well, you get the idea.

3) Eliminate expensive items that need regular replacement.- anything made of sunbrella, canvas dodgers are expensive and don't last long in the tropics, make one out of a couple of skins of plywood and chuck some paint on it. In fact I'd like a boat with no canvas work anywhere.

Standing rigging - this is part of the reason I like unstayed rigs.

A hard dinghy with oars and sail over an inflatable with outboard

4) give up on the shiny boat syndrome - paint it yourself and live with the results.

 

 

Now here's what got this thread started in my head - What about a boat that would dry out level , a multihull would be a good start but the initial cost is a killer, there are a few twin keelers around, but I don't think they were ever very succesful.

But I like the idea of flat bottom/centreboard/leeboard. I can really only find a few of them. Anyone know of any others? Any objections to them?

 

Most of these have the advantage of being able to navigate in less than a metre of water.

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The simpler the better, you can get by with the simplest of basics it just takes a mind shift to make it work. cat boat rig, or if rigged use galvanised rigging as good or better than SS only needs yearly maintenance, I know of yachts with 25 year old galv rigging that is as good as the day it was fitted.

For me my centreboarder works well, the keel is 700mm wide at the widest point and will support the boat upright and you can move around the deck without any risk of tipping as long as the beach / seabed is firm and if it does lie over with only 1m draft with he board up it doesn't lie over very far. the boards are 20mm alloy and use a single purchase for raising / lowering etc. they are designed in such a way that they can be removed and reinstalled while in the water. No refrigeration, a good icebox will last for up to 5 days +- hand and foot pumps, batteries for lighting, VHF, GPS, radio. no big draining loads, 1 or 2 solar panels to keep the batteries in good shape.

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No refrigeration, a good icebox will last for up to 5 days +-

So where do you get the ice from every five days?? I mean, What about the ICECREAM!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

 

So flat bottom sailboats...err...is that a "Scow"?? were once common through out NZ crossing River bars bringing trade. But they were shallow draft for the reason of Bar crossings. I understood they did not sail so well due to no real keel. Would the foils in the above designs be enough to allow such a design to sail well?? I mean, the Hull and keel shape is also a wing in it's design. And yes I know modern fast racers can have very small keels, but we are talking a big difference in speed, so the "stalleto" keel has more affect. But what about slow moving flat bottom hulls. They must slide leeward terribly surely.

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...

For me my centreboarder works well, the keel is 700mm wide at the widest point and will support the boat upright and you can move around the deck without any risk of tipping as long as the beach / seabed is firm and if it does lie over with only 1m draft with he board up it doesn't lie over very far. the boards are 20mm alloy and use a single purchase for raising / lowering etc. they are designed in such a way that they can be removed and reinstalled while in the water. ...

 

 

Sounds fantastic, what design is it Steve?

 

SHANE

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The issue with the bilge and tripple keelers is the larger wetted surface, and small , low aspect foils. Neither is good for performance, hence their sailing reputation.

 

The NZ scows, though, were a work of art (IMO). Great load carrying capability, regularly loaded while dried out, shallow draft, and masses of sail. They went places that most modern sailors only dream about, and were NZ's main rural load carriers for quite some time. And yes they used leeboards. I'm not sure how efficiently they sailed - but it can't have been too bas seeing what they did!

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Ther must be a few folks thinking along these lines. I've had the study prints of a Nis 43 stuck on the wall of my cave for a year now.

 

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Dorydude's thread makes interesting reading.

 

https://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showth ... p?t=103363

 

I've looked over this boat and was impressed. It's a great looking boat built very economically.

 

I haven't found a designer who's willing to put his name on something this sensible..

 

The 1020 has just gone to new lovers now and I'm looking for a project.

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If he's from Auckland - does anyone know who dorydude is?

Also noticed the second pic he put as inspiration is the AS29 - the line drawing I posted at the beginning - maybe I'm not all alone!!!

 

That NIS looks way cool. What about an "update" on Meadowlark?

 

Steve on qay you should give Crew a full write up with pics on your tinnie??????

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You don't have to do without some refrigeration. I've got one of those Waco portable numbers. Holds nearly what a std sized chilly bin does and uses less than 1amp when down to temp.

 

Nothing to plumb in, nothing to build in, only a ciggy plug to wire in and bugger all power consumption. Get one and enjoy cold drinks. It will freeze but will consume more juice though. The specs say 0.8amps to hold at 4 degrees, from my watching that is very correct even possibly a smidgen high. Work damn well as a unpowered chilly bin also.

 

Knot a bad looker that 43 and easy in sheet ply at a guess. Well dry tan construction ply (cheapish). Get CC faces and a bit of fibreglass to seal her up outside.... all go.

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Hi Shanson, It is a Trismus 37, there have been upward of 350 built around the world, most in France. Mine is alloy, I believe there were 30+ professionally built alloy versions, the rest being balsa core, GRP, Etc. There is a trismus web site, in French though but you can get a lot of info all the same.

Re the ice running out after 5 days, you cater accordingly, you start with everything frozen, with a bit of planning you have some items thawing faster than some of the more dense items so not everything has to be eaten at the same time. Powdered milk, fresh fish, spuds, onions, cheese, eggs, all keep well, White budget bread is good for a week to 10 days. the bilge below the waterline is reasonably cool here in NZ for storage of the butter, cheese, etc etc.

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Hi Shanson, It is a Trismus 37, there have been upward of 350 built around the world, most in France. Mine is alloy, I believe there were 30+ professionally built alloy versions, the rest being balsa core, GRP, Etc. There is a trismus web site, in French though but you can get a lot of info all the same.

 

Thanks Steve

 

What does she point like? Have you had her off shore?

 

IT really looks like something I've been looking for for a while.

 

Cheers

 

SHANE

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Hi Shanson,

Prior to my owning her she was sailed from France to the antarctic (unconfirmed) to Alaska, back through the Pacific to Vanuatu then to NZ via Fiji. It is in the plan to take her back into the Pacific though so far my use to date has been coastal, I have taken her around the top and down into the Kaipara and back again. We cruise from Tauranga to Houhora and places in between as often as we can. She sails extremely well on all points except she wont sail much higher than 45 degrees, any higher and you are pinching, much better to ease to 50 degrees and enjoy the faster sail and make less leeway. I am experimenting using the boards to achieve better balance after talking to the owner of "Antarctica" who suggested doing so. As he said with the twin boards (in line) you have infinite balancing possibilities. Before that I had only used the aft board when running downwind and the main board when going to windward otherwise it was all boards up. She will sail herself on most points hands off as long as you have a constant wind. I use a bungy set up on the tiller to assist.

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Yes I know who Dorydude is, but as far as I know he has never come out of the closet so to speak.

 

It's such an interesting story that it should really end up in a boating mag.

 

The whole concept of a cat rig sharpie fascinates me, but I'm wondering how it would go coming back from the bottom end in a 25 knot SW. Or how it would motor through a decent chop in the Motuihe Channel.

 

I think you could have something basic with a say a 3 seater lounge suit and a couple of lazy boys for the saloon and a kings size mattress up forward. Maybe a kitchen outfit would make up the galley like those French boats. The transom would have to be cut out and a tiller or twin wheels added. I'm not sure about the centreboard. The idea of barnacles jambing up the works is a worry and shallow draft is not that much of an issue around the Gulf so why have one.

 

I guess in the end, what sort of resale would a boat like this have?

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I guess in the end, what sort of resale would a boat like this have?

 

If you are wanting a boat like this to spend a few years bumbling around the world oceans, is resale something that should be in the equation? I'd say no personally.

 

But I do love the idea of of a very lounge like saloon.

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Squid.

 

I don't know where you can download part one, but I do have it on a CD that came with my NIS 43 study plans from Robert Ayliffe. Actually the CD comes with a bunch of stuff to get you interested in his NIS Sharpies. He did say to share it around so if you want the file or the CD PM me.

 

Cam

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