Jump to content

Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

Recommended Posts

Funny how you guys can drag this thread 'ÔFF TOPIC" and not be "pulled up on it"

 

Where are you IT...."insert roll eyes here"

 

Smithy, would you keep an "key employee" who has failed to meet their targets for 13 years???

 

You keep avoiding this question. And I suspect it is because it compromises your "love of Barker" versus his " massive losing record"

I guess the thread drift is more interesting than the initial topic. I would also like to point out that YOU Ketchup started the thread drift by saying that our Dinghy classes were falling off and had no depth.. Thread drift nevertheless. Humble apologies.

 

As someone else has mentioned here, what were Dean and Dalt's targets? Do you know? I don't. You keep mentioning KPIs but never state them. I pointed out a long list of achievements as to why I thought they had achieved the vast majority of their targets, and deserved to stay, but you seem to prefer to let the needle skip again and again. BORING.

 

The topic was "Barker and Dalton should go". I say NO. I have given good reasons why not. Pretty damn simple.

 

Let me put it in another way. Say Fonterra have an ultimate goal of being the biggest dairy company in the world. For 20 years they have tried, but are only world #2 to Nestle. Faaak!! Sack all the directors. make them walk the main street self- flagellating and dressed in sackcloth.

 

I guess it's whether you want to celebrate success or denigrate a team for failure. The old half empty or half full scenario. Add to that, you, in your various guises have always slagged ETNZ, and these two in particular. I really don't know why. Maybe you had a crush on Mandy Smith at some stage, and got beaten to the alter? I dunno, but there is certainly a theme that stretches back long before San Fransisco..

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

smithy, I have mentioned their KPI's. They are not hidden or secret and they are all similar between all AC teams.

 

Their main team target is to win. Through various stages. Then there is individual targets.

 

They have given it three attempts, over more than a decade doing the same thing with the same people for the same result - HELLO/Bingo! Is that not the definition of Madness!

 

AT least Fonterra have grown and won business in that period!.

 

Your Fonterra example is not that same. Fonterra is a business that has to earn a income for it shareholders 24/7 forever. ETNZ has a defined Campaign life. fomterra has shareholders with teeth and demand growth, evolution, change, and to win more business. ETNZ have one target and have failed at every attempt, spent all the money, have been under resourced, and over payed. What a ratshit business that is. Fail to obtain your target, under resourced, overpayed, and now fiscally challenged. MY corner dairy is a better business than ETNZ!

 

Most importantly Fonterra change their CEO's and top management often to grow change and insure their is no complacencey and there is fresh and innovative thinking!... it keeps them honest and ensures there are no issues with "empire building" and Ego centric domination... Bingo!

 

Most of all fonterra are number one in NZ and in mAny world markets. They have risen from nothing in 20 years, changed all the Management that failed to perform through that period and have not stuck with locals to run the business. In fact the last couple of CEO's are from another country.

 

Managers in Fonterra that fail their KPI,s (let's say Tarkets) are either re trained, re deployed but most are moved on.

 

Smithy, I want to celebrate a team. I celebrate Burling not Barker, Coutts (our greatest sailor) not Dalton, the All Blacks, not the Warriors... I celebrate winners.

 

I do not denegrate ETNZ. I question Dalton and Barker as leaders/sailors at the AC level.

 

I also question why no process is put in place to "call for other people to apply for these positions" ,...'just for the simple reason as to see who is out there and what they offer. That to me says its a closed shop and not open to challenge, innovation, change and plain old simple "integrity"

 

For me there are many prime candidates world wide that would do a better job than D and B.

 

Why would you not open the door and see what comes in?

 

And forget the "Dalton gets all the money argument". Other great CEO's have more links to sponsorship than Dalton "may Have".

 

By the way. I admire that you have the nads to debate with me as opposed to many others who sit on the side lines or "snipe" around the edges with off topoc rubbish. Good on you! :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

smithy, I have mentioned their KPI's. They are not hidden or secret and they are all similar between all AC teams.

 

Their main team target is to win. Through various stages. Then there is individual targets.

Could you please list the document(s) to which are you referring?

Or are these KPIs something you have arrogated to yourself to assign ETNZ?

 

( An aside - the whole concept of a KPI is a cop-out, derived as far as I can tell from the management truism "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it".

Which in turn seems to have come out of the school of thought which believes management is a science in and of itself, and doesn't actually require any subject matter expertise. IT projects are typically encumbered with numbers of these parasites, and their equally useless ally, the Business Analyst... )

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

Could you please list the document(s) to which are you referring?

Or are these KPIs something you have arrogated to yourself to assign ETNZ?

 

( An aside - the whole concept of a KPI is a cop-out, derived as far as I can tell from the management truism "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it".

Which in turn seems to have come out of the school of thought which believes management is a science in and of itself, and doesn't actually require any subject matter expertise. IT projects are typically encumbered with numbers of these parasites, and their equally useless ally, the Business Analyst... )

Oh! You have a voice niw,. how about an opinion Bannari?

 

Sorry buddy but you can't "put your oar In" now without having an opinion as I requested 35 posts ago.

 

Your latest post is just trolling.

 

Grow some nads like smithy and have an opinion!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

The most foremost KPI Ive ever had in every job Ive taken is . . . .

 

1. Stay employed

 

On that basis, Baker and Dalts have succeeded 100%

Well that is correct! If they took that "survival attitude to the AC then ...?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh! You have a voice niw,. how about an opinion Bannari?

 

Sorry buddy but you can't "put your oar In" now without having an opinion as I requested 35 posts ago.

 

Your latest post is just trolling.

 

Grow some nads like smithy and have an opinion!

Ignoring the insult, I take that to mean your so-called KPIs don't actually exist. Game over.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

No insult bannari. Just stating the facts.

 

Just sniping one paragraph, in many posts, is trolling.

 

Have an opinion.

 

If you have read the posts I made correctly I have already stipulated them

M. They are obvious to anyone /all and sundry.

 

Futhermore, have a proper opinion and I will respond.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

Good points Dark side. And you hit on a great example with Barker letting Spit hill off the hook at that start(among other things?).

 

That is a classic example of Barkers lack of "killer punch" winning aggression. No doubt Spihill would have nailed Barker if reversed. Ainslie would too! And Coutts, Butterworth would! But Dean is to soft and lacks that edge that real winners have.

 

Burling might have that weakness to?' I hope not.

 

Also worth considering is the fact that there were really only 2.5 teams in the last event. So being top 2 or 3 means zero.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have read the posts I made correctly I have already stipulated them.

YOU don't get to stipulate KPIs as you are not ETNZ's employer.

If you put your money where your mouth is, and Emirates Team New Zealand became Ketchup Team New Zealand (or perhaps more creatively Team New Zealand Between The Sheets) that situation might change.

But until that day your KPIs are meaningless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it is worth Fonterra is only number 4 in the world but by and large does a pretty good job by NZ dairy farmers.

ETNZ have made a fair few finals in recent AC's and most would acknowledge them as being top two or three in any given year.

Is that good enough? Depends on your point of view.

I will say I get a bit sick of people saying they were unlucky in the last cup. In race 8 from my vantage point on Marina Green, I couldn't believe they didn't turn turtle and game over.

Sure they could have won the race that timed out and perhaps Barker should have tapped Spithill in the second last start to force the umpires call but everything is easy with hindsight.

I will say as a Kiwi in San Francisco I was mighty proud of ETNZ's efforts in the last cup. They led the charge for the longest time in foiling technology but couldn't quite get it done.

Attention Tomato Sauce. major thread drift. Ignore this post!!

 

Ahem.... As KM would say, "I've gone deep" (Actually only one Google search, but why let the facts get in the way of a good story):

 

Top 20 milk processor list   IFCN

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points Dark side. And you hit on a great example with Barker letting Spit hill off the hook at that start(among other things?).

 

That is a classic example of Barkers lack of "killer punch" winning aggression. No doubt Spihill would have nailed Barker if reversed. Ainslie would too! And Coutts, Butterworth would! But Dean is to soft and lacks that edge that real winners have.

 

Burling might have that weakness to?' I hope not.

 

Also worth considering is the fact that there were really only 2.5 teams in the last event. So being top 2 or 3 means zero.

Sorry mate. Now you're just dribbling. Luna Rossa + ETNZ + Oracle + Artemis = 4 teams that made it to the show. Can't remember how many other teams did start the ball rolling, spent cash, but didn't meet their KPIs :roll: and rolled over. I would count them too. How the flock you get 2.5 teams out of that is just bollocks, or tax accountant maths. Anything to justify your obsession about Dean and co. You DID have the hots for Mandy, didn't you? Lie back on the couch and tell me all about it.. :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy you are correct but it depends on volume or turnover.

I used the turnover rankings which basically show Fonterra don't add a lot of value compared to the European companies.

https://www.rabobank.com/en/press/search/2014/dairy_top20.html

Topping the rankings on money is what we should aspire to, in my humble opinion as an ex dairy farmer.

But back to the thread.

Do they need Dalton to raise the money? It would seem so.

Was there anyone better than Dean available to ETNZ last time? Don't think so, not even close.

Will Dean steer next time? Hard to say yet but with the rise of the new young guns probably not.

It's a shame they can't work out a way to hold the next one somewhere as good as San Francisco for the spectators.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

Sorry mate. Now you're just dribbling. Luna Rossa + ETNZ + Oracle + Artemis = 4 teams that made it to the show. Can't remember how many other teams did start the ball rolling, spent cash, but didn't meet their KPIs :roll: and rolled over. I would count them too. How the flock you get 2.5 teams out of that is just bollocks, or tax accountant maths. Anything to justify your obsession about Dean and co. You DID have the hots for Mandy, didn't you? Lie back on the couch and tell me all about it.. :razz:  :razz:  :razz:

No sorry Smithy, you may fancy Mandy. But she is not my cup of tea!.. I went for something better looking brunette and with brains.

 

2.5 teams is an accurate measure of how many teams were competitive smithy. They were Oracle, Etnz, and Artemis get 1/2 a point for showing up. Luna rossa were their as glorified advertising.

 

But Smithy tell me about your obsession with Barker. You seen to defend him with such gusto that it has me concerned for your manlihood :-)

 

But more importantly... when will you answer my question?...

 

I think you would fire any key employee who failed to meet key targets (formerly known as KPI's) for two years....let alone 13.

 

Back at ya chappy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was talking about milk powder production mainly. Guess I should have said that. Fonterra don't add much value on that compared to others but their Milk powder factories are world class thanks to some damn good Kiwi engineers, hey SJB?

 

Agree with all your points. I think they are moving in the right direction. One thing about Pete Burling where he lacks experience (Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan) is match racing, where Dean has a huge amount of experience. He will get it though. Slowly slowly. I reckon they are on the right track.

 

Dalts was a bit out of control with his management style from all the gossip, so ETNZ have gone the management committee route, and good move again.

 

They have the money I am told. How good is that? Awesome result.

 

Is this all good for NZ and NZ sailing? Hell yeah!

 

Agreed on San Fran. Getting up there was on my bucket list, preferably sailing up!

 

Tomato sauce still has to come clean about Mandy though..

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

Smithy you are correct but it depends on volume or turnover.

I used the turnover rankings which basically show Fonterra don't add a lot of value compared to the European companies.

https://www.rabobank.com/en/press/search/2014/dairy_top20.html

Topping the rankings on money is what we should aspire to, in my humble opinion as an ex dairy farmer.

But back to the thread.

Do they need Dalton to raise the money? It would seem so.

Was there anyone better than Dean available to ETNZ last time? Don't think so, not even close.

Will Dean steer next time? Hard to say yet but with the rise of the new young guns probably not.

It's a shame they can't work out a way to hold the next one somewhere as good as San Francisco for the spectators.

Better than dean... hell yes.there were three guys on The team better than Dean! One who was so good and a Multiple AClass world Champ. Burling would have been good back then too! And the Koreans he sailed with knew that too!

 

The AC as an event, plus the team and its advertising potential brings in sponsors not Dalton. But Dalts could be sponsorship manager.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No sorry Smithy, you may fancy Mandy. Sure, she's a hottie. But she is not my cup of tea!.. I went for something better looking brunette and with brains. uh huh.. Sure.

 

2.5 teams is an accurate measure of how many teams were competitive smithy. They were Oracle, Etnz, and Artemis get 1/2 a point for showing up. Luna rossa were their as glorified advertising. Bollocks.

 

But Smithy tell me about your obsession with Barker. You seen to defend him with such gusto that it has me concerned for your manlihood :-)

 

 I sailed with Dean in Lasers. He was a quiet, shy guy who got on with it. I didn't know him well, but got a general impression of what he was like as a person.  I was most impressed with him after Coutts, Butterworth and co left. He travelled the world rounding up ex TNZ members who were about to desert and persuaded them to hang tough. I bet he was well out of his comfort zone doing this, but he did it anyway. For that stepping up to the plate, and the way he has conducted himself ever since, he gets my vote. Great representative for NZ. Quiet, but passionate and determined.

 

But more importantly... when will you answer my question?...

 

I think you would fire any key employee who failed to meet key targets (formerly known as KPI's) for two years....let alone 13. He's met them all. Winning the AC is a team target. Sack them all and see where that leads you. Following your line of thinking and sacking Dean and Dalts would lead to the implosion of ETNZ. there ya go. Question answered.

 

Back at ya chappy.

 

 

See above.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

I was talking about milk powder production mainly. Guess I should have said that. Fonterra don't add much value on that compared to others but their Milk powder factories are world class thanks to some damn good Kiwi engineers, hey SJB?

 

Agree with all your points. I think they are moving in the right direction. One thing about Pete Burling where he lacks experience (Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan) is match racing, where Dean has a huge amount of experience. He will get it though. Slowly slowly. I reckon they are on the right track.

 

Dalts was a bit out of control with his management style from all the gossip, so ETNZ have gone the management committee route, and good move again.

 

They have the money I am told. How good is that? Awesome result.

 

Is this all good for NZ and NZ sailing? Hell yeah!

 

Agreed on San Fran. Getting up there was on my bucket list, preferably sailing up!

 

Tomato sauce still has to come clean about Mandy though..

Match racing skills are not required as much in Cats smithy.

 

San Fran was an awesome event accept where they hid the compounds and having "the cone" on the starboard layline.

 

As for deans experience... well he has sailed a lot but his experience does not contain any big event wins! I don,t count his match racing wins with much cred.

 

Burling is already a better sailor and down more than Barker. Barker has failed in the Olympics, world champs at senior level, AC... burling has a silver multiple world champs in big fleets, and is still very young.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup

See above.

shite smithy! Two up in a laser with Dean... say no more. :-)

 

And you did not answer the question! You extrapolated it out to the whole team.

 

Teams are lead by leaders? Coutts Spithill are leaders. Barker... don't think so!

 

WOULD YOU SACK A KEY EMPLOYEE THAT FAILED TO MEET HIS GOALS/TARGETS AFTER Thirteen YEARS - YES / NO...

 

Come on smithy its easy! You can do it!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...