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Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

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With the (then)recent advancements in technology, its easy to see why the utilisation of the technology could be difficult at times. More integration between the different departments and a holistic approach would have helped to produce a unified campaign. At the end of the day they thought outside of the box to deliver collaborative applications to the design challenges within the AC and should be commended for making the most of the limited resources available for them to utilize.

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Guest Ketchup

I go sailing to get away from hearing dopey sh*t like "KPI".

Yes so do i, but there is a difference between you going sailing for pleasure and ETNZ going to the AC with big corporate demands, 35 million of our tax dollars' and NZ reputation on the line.

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I agree with all your comments Smithy re the AC, but I was curious about your suggestion a few posts back that "Laser fleets are rubbish, but they are probably the exception" - we had 153 sailors at the Nationals in Takapuna a few weeks back, with a really strong turnout from Youth sailors, so I would say the class is actually in great health.

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Guest Ketchup

With the (then)recent advancements in technology, its easy to see why the utilisation of the technology could be difficult at times. More integration between the different departments and a holistic approach would have helped to produce a unified campaign. At the end of the day they thought outside of the box to deliver collaborative applications to the design challenges within the AC and should be commended for making the most of the limited resources available for them to utilize.

Jeez Booboo that is "fair dinkum" brilliamt and a fair assessment of the technology battle withing the AC.

 

ETNZ took their route down technology road, with a headstart, and Oracle took their route on the super freeway and with nice view of ETNZ's technology and direction.

 

Thus Oracle were probably better pleced by seeing ETNZ's direction.

 

But ETNZ needed to have a "step change" to adapt to Oracles better technology and also keep evolving their foil set up and adjustment.

 

Instead they stopped evolving their foils and played with pie warmers etc.

 

Soooo, it was not a matter of technology utilization but refining the "right" and "best speed generating" technology they had to make it better. Foils were where the big gains could be had. Dalton and co focused on other bolt on crap.

 

That while thing could have been managed a whole heap better.

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I agree with all your comments Smithy re the AC, but I was curious about your suggestion a few posts back that "Laser fleets are rubbish, but they are probably the exception" - we had 153 sailors at the Nationals in Takapuna a few weeks back, with a really strong turnout from Youth sailors, so I would say the class is actually in great health.

Sorry Richard. Throw away line. I find that the weekend Laser fleets are well down on what they were in the early 90s. The Nationals had big numbers but only around 30 (?) in the open fleet? We used to get 120 regularly. Not sure I like the splitting of the masters and open fleets. It used to be fun to get beaten up by Doug Bates from time to time, just to keep you humble! The small fleet start lines don't help our top guys either. easy to get a good start in a 30 boat fleet, not so easy with 100 boats and 1/2 doz hopefuls barging the committee boat! The biggest fleet was radial wasn't it?

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Yeah no question the weekend fleets aren't what they were, but I think that probably goes for most classes.  Possible also that they are more spread around the various clubs.  The splitting of masters and open fleets has probably allowed numbers for the regattas to remain as high as they are, but there is still a pretty wide range of ages in masters so not difficult to have a humbling moment occasionally! And yes, our individual fleet sizes aren't great for Worlds or Olympic practice, but hasn't seemed to hinder the top guys.

I agree with your observations about the amount of depth in our Olympic fleets, and some real medal chances there - the shame of it all is that we are sending them off to race in a sewer, and I hope none of them lose a possible medal from collisions with discarded furniture, or get seriously crook from mixing with floaters.

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Agreed Richard. I hope (but doubt) Rio clean up their water before the Olympics, but it's not looking good. personally, I would rather see the Masters sail with the open fleet and have their results split off. It is nice to be able to see how close the old farts can get to the young guns. I shouldn't really be commenting as I am just an armchair observer. I'd love to have a crack at lasers again... Too many irons and not enough time.. One day perhaps. :thumbup:  :thumbup:

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I thought the old farts were right there with the open fleet.

Nah. Separate start, separate fleet. Only the brave old farts race with the open fleet.. Open fleet was only around 30 boats. Separate radial fleet, separate masters fleet. Correct me if I'm wrong RB. Best old fart was Dean Drummond. 10th in the laser worlds last time they were in Taka and 15th in the open fleet 2015 Nationals. Not bad for (I'm guessing) 90kg Master in a lightish nationals..

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Yes, separate fleets, and the Open fleet is indeed only for the brave! Dean did do well as it was generally light airs. Am not sure but we may be mixing it up between Open/Masters at the Auckland Laser Champs at Tamaki this weekend, precursor to Sail Auckland so should be a good fleet with a few overseas sailors here.  Tamaki has a late model Laser for charter on a daily rate for regattas or club days if you ever want to jump back in Smithy! Think it's taken for this weekend and Sail Akl though.

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Guest Ketchup

Funny how you guys can drag this thread 'ÔFF TOPIC" and not be "pulled up on it"

 

Where are you IT...."insert roll eyes here"

 

Smithy, would you keep an "key employee" who has failed to meet their targets for 13 years???

 

You keep avoiding this question. And I suspect it is because it compromises your "love of Barker" versus his " massive losing record"

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would you keep an "key employee" who has failed to meet their targets for 13 years???

 

Who is the employer of this 'key employee' or who are they answerable too?

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Guest Ketchup

As I keep saying... we are all sponsors thanks to the Govt funding this team.

 

As such I am a sponsor just like you are.

 

I am Not happy and I believe most kiwis do not want to be involved in the next AC.

 

Also who said the Sponsors are happy and which ones?

 

It appears some people here spin the truth to suit their position on this.

 

Sponsors do not run the team. They fund it for a fiscal return for their brand. that happens whether ETNZ wins or takes another dorking.

What Kiwis want and what people with a ounce of pride want is for ETNZ to win.

 

After all ETNZ has the initials NZ in its name. Thus this so called

Private team is making out that it represents NZ.

 

Sooo... as a sponsor and a NZ'r I want to win. Not second, not last, but win.

 

With Chokers like Dalton and Barker ths will not happen. I predicted it twice before and I will be proven right again.

 

You few, who object to this, may accept mediocrity, losers, and the fact these guys are taking your money under the false "guise" that they are representing NZ sailing. But in reality you are just fooling yourselfs and buying into the fraud that this team is.

 

Finally, most kiwis would rather see their money spent In better ways. A few yachties ( with possible links to Barker/Dalton) on this site defend him in this forum but have never fronted with good reasons.

 

As for who to replace them with....

Well if you took the time to read my posts I have already identified the best people to replace these two chokers.

 

IT, try to be more consistent with thread drift. Or have the "minority got your ear"!

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Yep, there was a bit of thread drift, but at least is was about sailing and both civil and interesting, so I let it ride. Back to topic.

As we have all said before, the govt money was more an investment or load than a gift, and has been repaid.

The sponsors that are happy - the ones that have resigned of course. Which I believe is most of them, if not all.

This has all been said in this thread earlier. Do you have anything (new) to add, or should this thread be put to bed? 

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So Ketchup seems to be hung up on the KPI that Barker and Dalton had of winning the Americas Cup. I am presuming he has knowledge of their individual contracts and therefore is certain that is what their employer is measuring them against.

 

The question he is posing is whether they should go or not, my view is that they did do a dam good job, did they make mistakes, in hindsight yes, and thats all you can judge against unpess of course you were in the room when the decsions were made and can share the exact reasonin, even then mistakes can still be made.

 

Should they go, well as it has been pointed out they are a private team, not an elected team, so the decision is best made by their bosses. And yes they have used public money, unfortunately we dont get a big say in how the government spends our taxes so why is this any different.

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Well put Graham.

As for the public money - I don't for one moment believe ETNZ told the government "Give us thirty mill and we'll win the cup".

Government went in eyes wide open and from all accounts got good value.

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