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Barker and Dalton should go.


Guest Ketchup

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Guest Ketchup

Yip! I guess you're right.

 

There is such a disconnect between the good club sailors and the AC. Same applies to the Olympic sailors now.

 

with no Olympic trials and no pathway for great club / national sailors to challenge for a Olympic berth ( the old Olympic trials) most sailor don't bother with it and as such many great sailors are lost to the Olympic squad and the AC.

 

It appears that the only way t get in the Olympic team is to have loads of dosh and or rich mummy and daddies. Also the need to qualify a spot for each class means only the rich sailor can travel Europe to prove their worth.

 

Same seems to apply to most other sports like Golf, tennis, Car racing, ...

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Really enjoyed most of the AC, and the Team NZ guys I have meet over the years have been nothing but consummate professionals.

 

Just prefer not to indulge a certain someone in the same old rhetoric  on and on ad nauseam.  

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Kind of reflects the state of NZ sailing right now

Nope, it reflects your style on the forum.

 

If you didn't attack people, constantly repeat yourself, dodge and deflect answering questions so much you'd see a different thread.

.

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Just a note to the posters, in this thread in particular. Multiple posts here have been removed for breaching the rules. One user has a 1 month posting ban.

 

I'd appreciate it if you all take a bit of a back step and be sure to play only the posts, and not the poster. Regardless of the history of a poster, please keep to the topics of discussion. You are free to say you agree or disagree, and to put your point of view. Do it politely, and If we all play by the rules, perhaps we can have some more adult, constructive discussions.

 

If a particular poster winds you up, please don't post until you can do it politely and calmly. Put them on ignore if you need to.

 

There are several posts still in this thread that are pretty marginal. Be warned, I will take whatever steps I deem necessary, even if you are a long time poster and contributor to the site. No one is immune.

 

I'm sure you will agree the site has been less abusive in the last year. I will keep it that way, even if it means being stricter for a bit while everyone gets used to the rules being a bit tighter.

 

Consider carefully if what you post contributes positively to the discussion. If not, don't post it.

 

Thanks, 

Matt

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well do you come onto the forum to share your thoughts or just pull out the "standard popcorn line" ?

Thoughts, yes. In the context of this particular thread, no.

I can think of few things less productive that wasting time and energy second-guessing the actions & decisions (right, wrong or indifferent) of people with several orders of magnitude more expertise than I have in the subject concerned, actually out there doing it.

But it does provide the odd chuckle.

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I've just read this (mainly) nonsense. And seeing as "Ketchup", the poster of many monikers started off this thread mentioning my name and comments, I thought I should reply.

What happened at the last AC? In summary, from my point of view:

 

1. ETNZ were beaten by a better team with more money. No shame there. Oracle were amazing as was Spithill. They never gave in and threw heaps of money and technology at it. Good on them.

 

2. We were VERY unlucky. The time and wind speed limits really stuffed us up, and only by fractions. Remember, these rules were changed a long way into the contest after the Artimis tragedy. ETNZ was designed to take a pounding in heavy airs and was proven to be able to do so. A few more minutes or a few more/less knots wind-speed and Oracle wouldn't have even got close.

 

3. Management stuffed up allowing the lay day and the auto trimming thingy to go unchallenged. Big mistake. Stand up Grant Dalton. I'm sure he has behind closed doors.

 

On the plus side:

 

1. Dean more than held his own as skipper and helmsman. He was standing up to Jimmy Spithill, supposedly the best starter in the world, pretty damn well, and for a supposed "choker" didn't choke.

 

2. Dalts got the money in, his main job. Big tick there. As they say in the offshore world: "No money, no honey, no funny". This was a major accomplishment. What's more, they have got the money again by all accounts, so the sponsors could not have been THAT unhappy.

 

3. ETNZ LED the development by a mile over the other teams. Gotta give Dalts a big tick there as he was overall manager. Ya can't slag him off for his mistakes but not recognise his triumphs. First to foil, best crew work etc etc. Oracle played catch up all the way and won because they were VERY good (In the end) and because they were VERY lucky.

 

4. ETNZ were MILES better than the other two teams who both had MASSIVE talent on board and MASSIVE budgets. Kicked their arses well and truly. Not even close.

 

5. ETNZ have recognised that Dalts had too much say and was responsible for mistakes, and he is now part of a management team who have overall control. Good move.

 

6. ETNZ have recognised that they need to keep growing and need new blood. So they got Burling and Tuke and are helping them to conquer the appropriate Dinghy classes that are relevant to the AC. (If only from a helmsman's point of view). These two have got to be somewhere around the best dinghy sailors in the world at the moment. Smart move!

 

So is ETNZ dead? NO. Have they made the right moves going forward? YES. Do they have their heads in the sand? Not by their actions so far. Are the sponsors happy? Gotta be. Money talks, bullshit walks.

 

So, Mr. Ketchup, I think it's time to lift the needle of the rather large crack in your record!

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Oh yeah. And our talent pool is shallow and rubbish. Seen the results from the latest ISAF regatta? 2 Golds, and quite a few in the top 10. And that's without Burling and Tuke!!! FFS, what more do you need? Also check out the 29er fleet any weekend and the Starling nationals, where you will see in the region of 150 kids battling it out in New Plymouth at Easter.. Don't get me started on the Opti fleet. FFS, what more do you need?

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Guest Ketchup

Great reply smithy and I understand where you are coming from. But you did not answer my question I posed in my first post#1. And you evaded all the points I made regarding the failues the "management" made.

 

Barker made bad calls in many races with that slam dunk that overruled Ray Davis by the cone, to that call not to have the A sail option at the start, to that near capsize issue where he called a tack without crew prepared for one (winch/hydraulic pressure)?. Plus the poor starts etc...

 

 

As I read your post it appears you would keep employing "key people like Barker even after failing their Most important KPI,s for 13+ years.

 

As for you second "FFS" emotional response (post), about how well Auckland sailing is doing. I don,t buy into your stats as they relate to Olympic medals and world champions. Sure there might be many kids sailing but there always has been. But compared to ten years ago sailing numbers have declined nationally.

 

Also, The recent ISAF result between Olympics are always good for Kiwis (kiwis always doe well between olympics just look at the stats) because most euros dont care util the big event comes around closer to the Olympics. Then they clean up.

 

If you take Tuke /Burling and Jo Aleh out of NZ sailing then there are no medal winners and no medal winning prospects.

 

Finn may be OK With Josh Junior but you are blinded if you think the other classes are "hot prospects" when they are not WINNING THE BIG EVENTS when it matters.

 

Smithy09. Good on you for responding and most of what you say is based on what you see locally in Auckland. But remember it does not translate to world champ wins and Olympic medals.

 

Just like you wanting Barker and Dalton in TNZ has not and will never translate to winning the AC.

 

More importantly, ETNZ is supposedl run like a multimillion dollar business. As a Business (which, based on its income is as big as most business's in NZ) No Executive, Board, or any company keeps a CEO (Dalton) and a National sales/marketing manager (Barker), that has failed to meet key targets year after year, more than 2 years, let alone thirteen.

 

Not one NZ company keeps failures for more than 2 years. They cannot afford to.... except ETNZ has run 13 years, 3 campaigns, and close to one billion dollars in expenditure and for what?... tourism marketing(knot me's favourite excuse)... what a waste and I think you will find the return of investment (exposure to markets, tourism etc is very tenuous at best.)

 

Larry does not keep losers, Conner does not, Ainslie will not... and no smart person would...

 

By key targets I mean winning the AC, having enough money and resources to compete against Oracle, having back up resources (like another helmsman option), having money available to make changes when needed in the AC ( which oracle did and Dalton failed at)

 

Especially when their are many other options available.

 

Sorry smithy buT I think B and D have to go. but we will agree to disagree.

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Yup. We will have to agree to disagree. Yes, ETNZ have not won the AC in their last 3 tries, but they got VERY close. In fact they were the second best out there in the world. And the last contest is the only one Larry has won fair and square. The tri-cat thing was just a gamble and dumb sh*t involving heaps of cash.

 

You keep mentioning KPIs but don't list them. I think what I was trying to point out in my last post was that they DID meet most of their KPIs... And the sponsors agree with me. You are a lone voice in the wilderness I'm afraid. We all know Dalts and Dean made their share of FUs but on the whole they did 99% of it right. It's just a VERY tough game, much tougher than normal business. (Yes I have been there! Normal business, not AC...) And they have performed extremely well.

 

With regard to youth sailing, actually we got Bronze at the world youth 29ers, and I think Alex Maloney and Molly Meech  would be pretty pissed off if you didn't put them down as hot contenders for the 49er FX gold. Second ISAF gold they have won?? So we have potential medal candidates in 49er male, 49er FX, 470 women, and top 10 contenders in Laser (4th), Finn, Nacra (they were winning their class for half the latest ISAF regatta, got 5th) and possibly men's 470 and Laser radial. (5th)

 

Starling and Opti fleets have NEVER been bigger in NZ. EVER!! resurgence in classes like Paper Tigers and  Sunbursts warm my heart as well. Laser fleets are rubbish, but they are probably the exception, The 29er fleet in Auckland is brilliant thanks to an exciting, fun to sail, "cool" design. Who wants a 420 when you can sail one of those?? Then add in the Squadron fleet of Elliots for the kids who want to go this way. I reckon we are in pretty good shape mate. 

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Look, going forward in to the future I intend to grow my business by keeping a close watching brief on important KPI's.  It will be necessary to efficiently network alternative fungibility and efficiently and professionallyenthusiastically simplify low-risk high-yield imperatives and I will professionally reintermediate client-based benefits.

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Thread drift!

Was not the topic Ketchup's assertion that ETNZ should synergistically leverage their core competencies via a proactive, results-driven, top-down redeployment of key human resources?

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