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Best Flag of Convenience in my opinion would be Jersey or Guernsey.  You get 10 years before needing to reregister, and only have to be a Commonwealth Citizen to qualify.  You will need a 'Tonnage" survey, and they will advise you surveyors here in NZ that can do that on their behalf.

You get to fly the Red Ensign which might look a bit better off in your flagpole socket than something from Nigeria.

Cost initially will be near same as NZ for the certificate, but you get it twice as long, and reregister is about 75 Euro from memory. 

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 Yes Jersey looks possible and I am trying to find out what is involved in getting a tonnage survey/cert,   

but apart from the question of cat 1 NZ reg seems so far to be the easiest to get, and all I would need to get a boat from somewhere back to here, and cat 1 would only be a problem when i wanted to leave again.   From the website it seems I just fill out a form and sent it with $830 for 5 yrs reg. No survey or 5 year bill of sale history required and done in 10 days if documents filled out correctly. Only hassle may be with a boat already registered elsewhere getting a deletion cert or evidence of closure from the foreign registry. 

 

If I did buy a boat it may be best to just get it home on NZ reg and then consider the cat 1 issue in a few years time.As a NZ resident owner you have to pay all the taxes on entering NZ wherever the boat is registered.

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TL - given the latter statement, and the fact that the current regs are in line for update, it does give you the oportunity to discuss your issues with a multi inspector and see if there is a modification that can be proposed.

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Wow $830.00 for a bit of laminated paper!

On 1st September 2010 it became $435.37 gst. inc.for 5 years. Obviously it must have gone up again!! Prior to 2010, if memory serves, it was around $250.00. It can't be staffing costs as I think there are only 2 in that department. We (yachties) are obviously being used to cross subsidise other parts of the (becoming infamous) Marine dept or whatever it is called this month.

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Wow, Where do I start? (Trying not to be offended by the thread...)

If you have a multihull I would welcome you contact me directly to discuss many of these issues. 

Escape hatches are not mandatory.

As mentioned many sensible solutions and compromises can be found by a sensible inspector.

I spend a fair bit of time doing my best to best represent the majority of multihull owners at any opportunity to update the rules. For instance, for Cat 3, you don't need bolt cutters or a stove. 

There are many Cat 1 rules under 'negotiation'. There is a large number of very experienced yachties involved. To some degree our hands are tied by overseas ISAF regulations and the like. 

 

I'd like one of you to name a specific piece of Cat 1 gear that you'd leave on the dock, in front of your family and /or crew, and sail away without. Go on, name it!

 

Personally I can't believe that you'd consider spending $800 on overseas registration rather than have someone have an intelligent look over the safety items on your boat?

 

It's fair to say I'd do the majority of multihull cat 1's, and a few monohulls locally too. Most boats I've left adding safety value well beyond the Cat 1 list. A good example is 90% of people I ask to demonstrate flares fail, but thought they new how to operate them. 

 

I'd suggest anyone unsure of Cat 1 talk to a friend who's been through the process. Or talk directly to an inspector. They are all keen sailors and knowledgable people. They are there to help get you away safely, not stop people going. 

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Don't be offended Tim! Most of the issues are from those who have never had THEIR boat inspected, and have heard stories.

Unfortunately though, I disagree on one minor point- not ALL inspectors have the experience I'd consider required - especially south of Auckland. Experienced offshore sailors are not that common!

BP had a less than productive discussion with one last year, and I have had one experience I would not wish to repeat.

 

However, generally my experience over several Cat 1 inspections has been very good!

I encourage people to actually speak to their local inspector if they have any doubts at all, and I reckon you'll be pleasantly surprised! I have had at least 1 useful recommendation from every inspector I have dealt with, and for the most part they have been knowledgeable friendly people. :-)

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Well we are probably all learning something from the discussion, I certainly are, and I had/have not ruled out getting cat one if I ever get around to sailing a boat away from NZ.  And would probably go with NZ reg at least for the first 5 years.

  The trips I have done on other peoples boats have all been without current cat one certs, most were very well prepared, some not so much , none of them had anyone outside the skipper and crew checking them before they left .  

Do other countries have a similiar system for private boats going offshore?  It seems we have a very thorough system covering NZ boats leaving NZ but nothing at all is required/inspected [other than Skipper responsibility] which really covers it all , for a boat sailing around NZ ,which can be at least as dangerous given that there is so much land to run into and we are so far south.

TC what would you say to a foreign boat that asked to pay for an inspection, and was prepared to listen to your opinion , and suggestions , but in the end whether he completely followed all the points was up to him, as he was not required to have cat 1. 

If I did buy a boat off shore I would be doing my first trip without cat 1 anyway, unless I wanted to export an inspector!

I can understand someone being a little upset if they sailed a boat back from say Europe , cruising for a few years , lots of experience along the way, improved and upgraded, equipped the boat as he went , thought they had it pretty right/safe , and then were given a long list of things that they needed to do/buy/fix, before they were allowed to leave NZ . Different situation if he was allowed to negotiate over the list which it seems may be sometimes the case? 

  I wonder if many yachties in say Aussie look at our system and think oh, I wish I had someone telling  me I have  to do this or that  before I can  sail to Noumea for the winter.? 

 

Cat one for Racers ! Skipper responsibility for cruisers! :idea:

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As I read TLS's post I understood that the $830.00 is the current the price of NZ "B" registration and hence my slightly acidic reply re the Marine dept.

TLS, is that NZ rego or Jersey rego?

Re what I would leave on the dock, the pregnancy testing kit!!

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Trying not to give offence:

 

Years ago I got my first boat to Cat 1. It was a significant expense. I only got top quality gear. A lot of it was dead after two years. I have already mentioned the medical kit. Flares also bug me. they are expensive and have way too short a shelf life. At a certain New Year's party around the end of last century (that included stealing a submarine) We fired off a bunch of expired flares - every last one of them worked just fine.

I never used to carry a radio. The new boat came with a VHF, I'd probably carry a satphone now. I don't know if that meets the rules or not.

But the Recent interaction was before the last Trans Tasman.  I spoke to an inspector to see what would be involved. Over the phone and without seeing the boat he told me my boat, being a plywood Spencer, was probably full of rot and the glue joints were all coming apart because Spencer always used the wrong glue (my boat is West Epoxy). And at the very least I would have to pull a couple of keel bolts and chainplate bolts.

After I hung up I decided to register elsewhere.

 

So I am listening to this thread and trying to keep an open mind, but I do object to someone telling me what I can or cannot do with my own boat.

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$830 nz reg for 5 years, 410 pounds Jersey reg for 10 years but you need to get a tonnage survey and pay someone in Jersey to be an agent, NZ seems way more straight forward, not much to it, not even a photo of the boat , in fact hard to see how they would stop someone registering a boat they don,t even own?

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So I am listening to this thread and trying to keep an open mind, but I do object to someone telling me what I can or cannot do with my own boat.

 

I'm the same BP, it ain't easy, and the Inspectors need to be diplomatic. That being said, none of us would want to go with dodgy chainplates or keel bolts! It is in everyone's interest, incl the NZ taxpayer, to be sure about this before departure.

 

I thought a reasonable response to this was the stance taken by the 1st Cat one inspector I used, the late Charlie Genet of Wellington. Charlie was a professional engineer, and had a lifetime of sailing behind him. Even thought the regs do allow an inspector to have a keel bolt drawn, Charlie's approach was;

"Well, on visual inspection, it looks good. There are 14 keel bolts, all appear in good condition, and all sound the same with the hammer test. There are no signs of keel movement. So, what we'll do is re torque the bolts, and if one breaks, THEN we'll have to look further, otherwise you are all good" I did re-torque them, no issues. Charlie understood the costs and the impossibility of meeting the letter of the law.

I think this is the most common type of approach.

BP and I have both seen a little bit of the officious side as well, but I think as Tim said, that is a lot less common. One Inspector doing that can do a hell of a lot of damage!

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TC what would you say to a foreign boat that asked to pay for an inspection, and was prepared to listen to your opinion , and suggestions , but in the end whether he completely followed all the points was up to him, as he was not required to have cat 1. 

If I did buy a boat off shore I would be doing my first trip without cat 1 anyway, unless I wanted to export an inspector!

 

  I wonder if many yachties in say Aussie look at our system and think oh, I wish I had someone telling  me I have  to do this or that  before I can  sail to Noumea for the winter.? 

 

Cat one for Racers ! Skipper responsibility for cruisers! :idea:

To answer that, I have done a couple of Aussie boats leaving back for Australia after competing here. The rules are slightly different, but only slightly. I'm sure they have a Cat 1 equivalent. Much of the reason for NZ Cat 1 was their insurance demanded it. That's quite possibly a reason for NZ owners to have Cat 1 too.

 

But the other reason that hasn't been discussed here is the sheer cost of rescue in the huge chunk of ocean that NZ is responsible for. 

I fully agree with the skipper taking responsibility of the boat, gear and situation. If it goes wrong, and they are happy to take the consequences (likely death) then that's fine. So (personal opinion here only) how about everyone who leaves without Cat 1 signs a contract of not expecting rescue without this basic level of safety gear. And then gets the crew to sign this contract, and all of their Dad's, sisters, brothers, relatives, friends etc. Then ask their Mum to sign it. Face to face.

 

Because what happens is often someone ashore gets worried and demands a search after an extended period of non contact time with the boat. If the boat hasn't got an EPIRB (Or other means of location detection or communication) Just where does the Orion's, Navy, commercial ships start to look in a huge ocean? This search costs way more than the Cat 1 gear cost, or the overseas registration. You can all name extended searches for boats in this predicament I'm sure.

 

Hence why for a while NZ tried to get all boats leaving to Cat 1. The sheer cost of this search, and the real risk to all personnel involved looking in fraught conditions. 

 

Please don't think, oh well I'll carry an EPIRB, but not the other safety equipment. The point of Cat 1 is to get you the destination safely, without needing rescue.

 

So no it's not a personal decision you make. It is one that will effect your family, and all in the Services that provide Search and Rescue services. 

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Tim, the cost of search is why I said " It is in everyone's interest, incl the NZ taxpayer" in my post above. Cost of rescue is certainly an issue.

 

IIRC the Ausy system is basically the same rules - but there is no inspection for a cruising boat, just a Skippers declaration form that says the boat complies....

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Well looks like the Aussies have stolen my idea already , Cat 1 for racing, skippers responsibility for cruising!

Its not really about not taking any precautions. many of the boats that leave NZ every year do not have cat 1 , they are not all death traps, with no safety gear.   They are prepared by the owners / skippers . with the equipment that they feel that they need , rather than forced to have.

I would have , emergency steering , parachute sea anchor , bungs for the sea cocks , storm sails , ideas for a jury rig, fire extinquishers, sat phone, multiple gps, extra water etc etc, and perhaps an inspector could point me in the right direction in some areas.

 

Time for work , but an idea to add to cat 1 requirements. 2 SMOKE ALARMS, early warning will give you the best chance of surviving  a fire at sea.!

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Yes, rescue costs, BUT it is part of NZ's nautical obligations to cover its part of the Pacific / Tasman etc. for such an event. NZ will rescue / attempt rescue of anyone setting of an epirb within this area. Look back over the records and see just how many or how few were actually NZ boats and see what was the cause, if it was apparent before they got into the life raft etc. The last one I saw was fire, definitely justified! Then there are other folk who find they can't hack it are want to bail. Often with the boat being found, still floating, or washed up on a distant shore somewhere months later. It makes sense to me for the airforce to have "live" practice rather than just go through the motions, The air miles are going to be flown whether they are on a rescue or not.

Re insurance, the crazy thing is that you can get cover in NZ out to the 200 mile limit and reasonably easy at extra cost to get cover at the other end out to their nautical limit. IT is the bit in-between that the insurance companies don't seem to want to cover. and that is in reality probably the safest part of the voyage.

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Forgive my ignorance BP but I also find your example odd. So BP was built in NZ, I'm going to assume domiciled in NZ for your example to be relevant, sailing the scout trips in NZ that drew the attention of, presumably, the NZ govt, and in order to legalise said scout trips he got the boat registered in . . . Vanuatu. Why register in Vanuatu and not . . . NZ?

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