The B&G Simrad 60 2010 Thread...

[Matty 0]

one of those races I am happy we did and finished but what a pain, no decent wet weather gear so it was just a matter of time before getting cold and wet and a very sore wisdom tooth didn't help.

[Clive 13]

Reflections…

 

Best times: 20kn kite ride down to Moturoa Island. Seeing the dolphins and their phosphorescence trails as we approached Gannet rock at about 1 am. Kia Kaha giving us some hot pies just before the start. A good breeze for the finish to get us home.

 

Not so great: Being becalmed for 7 hours. Wet feet - After spending all week re-waterproofing my Musto boots they were soaking wet before the start! Getting too Cold. Hyper getting passed us in the light!! Grrr….

 

For Sale: Musto boots!

[Guest]

Looking through the results, I reckon one of the best efforts is from Cool Bear. To be that close to Communique in those conditions is a great result and they cleaned Fendall up on handicap. 2nd in fleet shorthaul too.

I saw them having a beer pre start too so they must have a good attitude as well.

Give my rum (if any) to them.

[Cameron 76]

Oh why did I put the pm behind my predicted finish time ! Otherwise it was pretty bang on!

 

So 12 hours out...

 

Anyway... I'm now wondering if the Longest Race will now be the quickest ? It can't be too hard considering we have had the slowest 50 and 60 milers in history !

[Guest]

By my calculations the prize goes to Tigre.

 

Predicted=10:00 Actual=18:27 Difference=8:27.

 

Well, if no one else came closer than that - it goes to Tigre.

[B00B00 310]

My vote is for Cam, all he got wrong was one letter, if he had put AM instead of PM he would have been exactly right!

[B00B00 310]

Have just heard that there has been a protest lodged agaist us by drop dead fred..... thats 2 protests in 2 races for them......

[Guest Rocket]

No comments on the abandoned start...

 

For what it is worth I have never seen that done on a long distance race before and wondered what the rationale was. There is a rule in there that anyone who hasn't crossed after 20mins is a DNS. So hard to see how the decision taken didn't materially prejudice the 4 or 5 boats that made it across the start on time.

 

Thoughts?

[Clive 13]

No comments on the abandoned start.......Thoughts?

 

How many Div 1 boats actually got over the line within 20 mins?

[Guest Rocket]

Maybe 6 - and does that matter?

[Clive 13]

I didn’t think it was that many. 6 out of 8 ...hmmm... hard call for the RO but if it was me and I had made it I would have been Ok with a recall.

Who wants to win a race because their competitor doesn’t make it over the start line due to no wind. Where is the fun in that?

[ex Elly 197]

Back Chat did well off the first start. Worked hard and did several sail changes to make it over to North Head. I can imagine they weren't too happy when the race was abandoned.

 

Overall I would say that Cracajac had one of the best results of the day. To be only a few minutes behind Mumbo Jumbo and QP is very good going.

[Clive 13]

Back Chat did well off the first start. Worked hard and did several sail changes to make it over to North Head. I can imagine they weren't too happy when the race was abandoned.

 

Think I’ll retract what I said until I hear what happened.

 

I thought only a few of the div 1 boats only just made it over the start leaving most of the others 200 mtrs behind and stuck in no wind. Failing to get over in the 20 min period meant they were DNS

 

Didn’t realise Div 2 (Back Chat) also got abandoned and some made it to North Head. Still a hard call for the RO though.

[DDF 0]

Have just heard that there has been a protest lodged agaist us by drop dead fred..... thats 2 protests in 2 races for them......

 

_________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is with some intrepidation and regret that I decided to protest as it doesnt seen to be acceptable in Yachting to question someone else.

However my first protest against Recreation was withdrawn because there was a suggestion that many boats did not comply with Rule 78 Sailing to class rule or their PHRF certificate and that a general warning would be posted for all boats to be compliant. I agreed to this and withdrew my protest. I should have protested Rattle N Rum for a port starboard incident on Motuihe Green buoy in the first race,which took me after that 30min to round the buoy while they sailed away and won.

 

This race I have protested under the same rule but I will not comment until afterwards but BooBoo's suggestion to intimidate by his comment is a good reason alone to proceed.

 

How does one question sail measurements or PHRF declarations without a protest, if there was an easier way I would have done it. Name another sport that does not check that participants do not abide by the rules. Yachting is serious, we all sail to win at considerable expense, so bending the rules is a distinct advantage. Accept the challange BooBoo to prove you're right.

[B00B00 310]

Have just heard that there has been a protest lodged agaist us by drop dead fred..... thats 2 protests in 2 races for them......

 

_________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is with some intrepidation and regret that I decided to protest as it doesnt seen to be acceptable in Yachting to question someone else.

However my first protest against Recreation was withdrawn because there was a suggestion that many boats did not comply with Rule 78 Sailing to class rule or their PHRF certificate and that a general warning would be posted for all boats to be compliant. I agreed to this and withdrew my protest. I should have protested Rattle N Rum for a port starboard incident on Motuihe Green buoy in the first race,which took me after that 30min to round the buoy while they sailed away and won.

 

This race I have protested under the same rule but I will not comment until afterwards but BooBoo's suggestion to intimidate by his comment is a good reason alone to proceed.

 

How does one question sail measurements or PHRF declarations without a protest, if there was an easier way I would have done it. Name another sport that does not check that participants do not abide by the rules. Yachting is serious, we all sail to win at considerable expense, so bending the rules is a distinct advantage. Accept the challange BooBoo to prove you're right.

 

Challenge accepted.

[Guest]

How does one question sail measurements or PHRF declarations without a protest,

 

 

Good point. If it turns out everything was kosher you should be able to say "great, see you next week" without any ill feeling on either part.

[Cameron 76]

Have just heard that there has been a protest lodged agaist us by drop dead fred..... thats 2 protests in 2 races for them......

 

I'd hate to see a reluctance for boats to protest due to attitudes from other competitors or a feeling that others will view it in poor light.

 

As a general rule I encourage people to protest in SSANZ races (even though it means more work). Afterall if no one protests boats may continue to break rules (either knowingly or through ignorance). A protest can help educate in regards to certain aspects of the rules.

 

For the last race both protests were withdrawn after I was involved with some mediation. I feel there has been some grey area in regards to PHRF's, code zero's and modifications and thought some leniancy may be desirable. I will say the decision to withdraw or carry on with each protest was always left to the person who lodged it. Since then competitors have had emails and an article is on the SSANZ site so no one has an excuse anymore.

 

DDF obviously has some issues with how Code Zero's should be treated/used/declared under PHRF. By putting it to protest he will hopefully then be able to put the issue to rest and hopefully the whole fleet can benefit from what we learn in the outcome. If Rattle n Rum successfully defend themselves in the room it will cast aside any doubts others may have in regards to their legality which is also a good thing.

 

The real trick to any protest is in not taking it personally and learning from the outcome. Hopefully it can all end with a smile and having a drink or two at the bar afterwards !

[Cameron 76]

No comments on the abandoned start...

 

For what it is worth I have never seen that done on a long distance race before and wondered what the rationale was. There is a rule in there that anyone who hasn't crossed after 20mins is a DNS. So hard to see how the decision taken didn't materially prejudice the 4 or 5 boats that made it across the start on time.

 

Thoughts?

 

32 SHORTENING OR ABANDONING AFTER THE START

32.1 After the starting signal, the race committee may shorten the course

(display flag S with two sounds) or abandon the race (display flag N,

N over H, or N over A, with three sounds), as appropriate,

(a) because of an error in the starting procedure,

( because of foul weather,

© because of insufficient wind making it unlikely that any boat

will finish within the time limit,

(d) because a mark is missing or out of position, or

(e) for any other reason directly affecting the safety or fairness of

the competition,

or may shorten the course so that other scheduled races can be sailed.

However, after one boat has sailed the course and finished within the

time limit, if any, the race committee shall not abandon the race

without considering the consequences for all boats in the race or

series.

 

I'll take "e" thankyou !

 

If it takes 5 min or so after the gun for the first boat to cross the start line I'd argue it's not in the interests of "fairness of the competition" Also some of the boats who ended up looking the best took almost 20 min to start. Fair ?

 

Personally I'd like to have seen it blown up much sooner but there are those with the view "it's the same for everyone..." (which also has some merit) that had to be convinced

 

I have also tried to think of it as if I was a competitor who had got away to a good lead. Questions I asked myself went along the lines of "Do I want to win because most of the fleet didn't start in time ?", "Do I want to protest every boat who started too late ?", "Am I 100% confident that the breeze won't come in from another direction and shaft me anyway ?"

All my answers told me if I was the competitor I would rather give up a lead in a lottery to have a "fairer" race.

 

Also in regards to the rule giving each boat 20 minutes to start... It's basically there so the Race Committee can go home 20 min after the last start. There is no intention to protest boats out as it would be pretty difficult to identify which division each boat was in and who was too late or otherwise. Expect an amendment for the next race or a rewrite for next year.

[Guest Rocket]

So on that basis you would have had to pull the pin part way through the second race as there was zero wind for some boats for hours. I would argue that the guys who didn't start in time showed a distinct lack of foresight (we had the wharf end to ourselves) and therefore got what they deserved - how was it unfair?

 

It was no more unfair than a 20degree windshift after a start. And we raced on for more than half an hour - where was the unfair bit?

 

In fact on reading e. if that was the rationale for abandoning then I believe that is an inappropiate application - I have seen starts abandoned when something occurs like a sudden windshift or another boat through the start line but not just a dropping off of an already light breeze. The reality was most of the first fleet simply weren't ready... As I said I have sailed for a long time and never ever seen that sort of action from the committee in a keelboat distance race. Crikey we anchored in Rangitoto channel one year on the way to Fiji!

 

And this competitor quite likes to win - (so long as I do it within the rules). I would relish a race where it was down to just 4 boats because the rest were biffed out after missing the 20minute cut-off. By the way you can't have a rule like that in the NOR and then not apply it - you would have been bound to DNS every boat that had not started after 20 mins - IMHO there is no discretion!

 

By the way this is my opinion here not the skippers!

[Guest]

In actual fact I thought the way SSANZ did it was quite clever. I think the SIs wording for both ranking as a starter and treatment of starting a bit unfair. However I accept the intention was to ensure the start boat could go home at some stage.

So I'm expecting to see some groovy wording about boats shall rank as a starter if in the vicinity of the start line up to 5 minutes after the last start. Then another sentence stating when the start line shall be removed, possibly along the lines of 10 minutes after the last starter has cleared the line.

 

While you are at it Cam, can you tidy up the wording around going between the ODM and committee boat. I got roundly told off when hanging around well before my start so then cleared myself to be a good boy. Having reread the rule I accept they could be misinterpreted by poor yotties such as myself.