ScottiE 174 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 So with all this recent talk about LPG install certs, dodgy hose fittings, not to mention Chrisc's superlative home built kero heater, its got me thinking about whether I should bother re commissioning the LPG stove (test stove, new regulator, hose, quick fiiting at stove, cover on locker) or change over to A less volatile system. Who uses alcohol stoves and how do you find them - lots of conjecture out in the web. By scientific brain would like to line up the three different stove types as 2 burners and have a bacon n egg bake fry off but the chandleries won't play ball! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,591 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I would choose kero over alcohol, much less likely to incinerate yourself and the boat. Gas vs kero - cooking is better with gas and it more convenient, but comes with above mentioned hassles. Your call, but if you already have gas I would probably say stick with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I am not so sure about liquid fuels. Any fuel is dangerous, just in different ways. Ever spilled a liquid fuel when it is burning? Gas is safe, until it leaks. But leaks can be easily detected with a detector, well before it reaches ignition levels. Gas can be easily evacuated, simply by a fan or by opening up the Boat. Liquid not so easy. On a hot day, fumes from evaporating fuels are just as explosive as Gas. Apart from a leak, gas does not smell when burning. On a Boat using Kero, there is always a smell of Kero. Mind you, that can sometimes be quite nice because it all blends into that familiar "Boat smell". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beccara 25 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 The only thing that scares me more than a fuel under pressure is a fire you can't see. Spilled fuel's are far more dangerous than gas leaks but as with anything no matter which way you go always know and understand the risks and take steps to protect your self. If it's gas have detectors and make sure gas lines can't block exits if they rupture and catch fire, If it's a liquid fuel know how to put it out! Baking soda or salt are great ways to soak up a liquid on fire along with a fire blanket, Never ever,ever,ever use Flour or the likes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay9ri3KmL4g Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 378 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 None of the above. This: is my pick of the bunch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beccara 25 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Had completely forgotten about that, I'm assuming it's the X100? Nifty idea but was pricey last time i looked Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1081577970 sh*t - at that price - I'll just get 2 - one for each hull! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 252 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Diesel, or 240 volt & induction. That diesel thing looks cheap compared to a boat fire, repairs, & skin grafts. And sorry to disagree Beccara but a gas explosion on a boat is not safer than a fuel spill IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 252 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 And you can just use some of the money you saved on lead, to buy that nice diesel cooker! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Cheers Willy. Have you looked at the market price of submerged lead on TM lately - plumetting like, well, lead! I'm still leaning to staying with LPG because we'll probably also have portable bbq on board and so limiting fuel types is something else for me to consider. If I had diesel propulsion then I think I'd maybe consider this in lieu but O/B is petrol of course! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Yeah, and no Oven with that either Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 It all comes down to personal preference. As Wheels correctly stated, all fuels are hazardous. Were I to install a gas cooker on the boat, I would firstly have to mount the stove and put a little 'Turn off gas' sign in its immediate vicinity. I would then need a gas detector with its bilge sensor and associated wiring. The gas bottle needs to be outside and really should be in a self draining weatherproof locker of some sort. The connection between the bottle and stove needs to be either installed or inspected by a certificated gas fitter- I don't know which, maybe both. You don't want to be running in and out all the time so a shut off solenoid is nice to have on the bottle. More wiring. Solenoids are a bit power hungry so a pulse and hold module would be desirable in the circuit if your battery capacity is limited. Were I to install a kerosine cooker in the boat, I would select it's location, bolt it down, fuel the tank and I'm in business. So I love my kerosine stove. My wife hates it. Lighting a kerosine stove is the perennial issue. From my viewpoint it's an easily acquired skill, and I don't mind waiting for the preheating, after all, I'm not going anywhere. From my wife's point of view, being busy with other galley type stuff, she either tries to light it too soon or too late, both of which can result in a big sooty ring on the deckhead which does tend to make her a bit cross. What I also like about kerosine stoves is that every part is either repairable or able to be made by the owner. EG I am busy with a kerosine project at the moment, and the fuel tank is missing the leather pump washer. These are hard to find now, but a quick trip to the local OP Shop, $2 for a used leather belt of the right thickness (leather cup washers are usually about 1.8mm thickness) and for my money I have enough material for about 50 replacement washers. Kerosine is cheap, but not from the Hardware store. Most of the smaller airports will sell you Jet A1 which is the same thing. 20 litres from Tauranga airport costs $50 and it will last a good long while. Kerosine doesn't degrade in storage like petrol does. To end this wordy dissertation, if you enjoy the ritual and are of a somewhat laid back disposition then i think you will like kerosine stoves. If you are more of the 'I want it now' school then stay with gas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Re that Diesel flat top cooker thing, it say's in the specs, Heat output 1.9Kw. Ummm, that is not a lot. In fact, it's not a lot for just one hot plate, let alone two. Am I reading something wrong there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,591 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Lamp oil in a kerosene stoves almost eliminates the black sooty stuff, no other side effects. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 378 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The Stove I pictured was a Wallas, from Finland. But it does look blooody similar to the other one... http://www.wallas.fi/index.php?id=54 they also make ovens, I priced the oven and stove up a year or so ago. The combo came to about 3500... euro.. so yeah, not cheap. But nice. I'm told that they do put out enough heat even though the 1.9kW seems low, and have a relatively short warm up time. But it's not like gas, of course. But they are clean, look good, and are relatively light (compared to other things like the Dickinson stoves) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Diesel stoves are good in cold climates, not so good in temperate or tropical because they give off alot of heat into the cabin area. Induction is good if you have a big battery bank (eg Dashew boats) and/or a generator, but running a genset to boil the kettle is a hassle. Yes LPG has to be managed correctly, like so many other things we use, but the installation is not so difficult - most of the compliance items eg sealed draining locker and correct piping and hoses are just common sense. There is no retrospective application of the regs at present as there is no gas WOF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Has anyone ever heard of an LPG explosion on a boat that didn't have numb nuts involved. You know what I mean , someone has done something stupid and that caused the issue. I've been boating since the 80's and I've heard of about 4. Victory, a couple of hardstand refit explosions( disconnected gas lines) and that Cat .. ( Coromandel somewhere?) IIRC that was fresh of refit too and had a disconnected line. This is what happens as far as I know. They unhook the gas line, not put it back, turn it on , not have a sniffer, not do a sniff test with mark one nostril. One very famous oldy time explosion was on the Victory.Blew the decks of in nineteen forty frozen stiff. One year a nephew of that man visited by coincidence and we got talking. He told me how the copper pipes in that boat were fracturing and had splits in them , so the skipper used to rub soap in them in order to get the stove to run. Thats a different time with different risk assessments and different knowledge, but ultimately , its something pretty damn silly that caused that explosion. LPG , in vented locker or open / above sea level cockpit. Gas hose to copper as appropriate fitted with crimp clamps to make the regulators happy and backed up with second hose clamps to save yourself and your family. BEP sniffer and remote control on /off to solenoid. Oven/ cooktop with heat sensors so the gas turns off if the flame blows out. This is just normal industry standard stuff that doesn't cause a problem. Thousands of installations,tens of thousands of , hundreds of thousands of ( who knows) no problems. The reason that those special tool crimped fittings are mandated even though they are inferior for the job , is that the regulators don't want gas lines disconnected , because that is what causes the explosions, disconnected lines. Not any other inherent issue with a properly installed system as such. After that cat blew up a few years ago I paid $500 and installed a remote switch/ solenoid with sniffer.Fantastic thing , easy as. Yes, even I could install that.( clapping in background) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
curly12 1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I was living in Opua when that Cat blew up. Apparently it was caused by a gas leak that built up in the bilge. The owner went on board after a few days away and lit the stove......... After seeing the cabin top that had landed 100 mt away I decided to not have gas on board any more. Currently have a charcoal bbq on the back of the boat, kero three burner cook top . Also rebuilding a two burner kero with kero oven. Planning on installing a fan in the oven also. Have a small potbelly that I tend to cook on most of the time especially in winter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Not have gas? so a simple gas detector wasn't the answer?I have a dual sensor detector. One at the lowest point in the boat, in the engine room under the engine, although well above water level. The other in the main cabin at the lowest point, directly under the Oven. The main Cabin is where all the Gas appliances are to be found. The reason for a dual sensor unit is because sensors can fail. Although I have never had one fail yet, after 14yrs and I do test them to make sure. And I have always been amazed at how sensitive they are. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beccara 25 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Cigarette lighters work a treat! The detectors are highly sensitive to water exposure so it pays to check them monthly where possible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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