Yourmomm 2 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 So registration on MNZ register part B (required) costs $1175, and has to be renewed every five years (anyone know the renewal cost?). If the boat is sold, it terminates, and requires re-registration from scratch. Once this is sorted, it looks like cat 1 requirements apply to any vessel intending to sail offshore (even when not racing). Is a cat 1 safety certificate required for customs and immigration clearance? The reason I ask is that Cat 1 requirements now seem to include a minimum length requirement, which would preclude my little 25ft vessel (which sailed here from Denmark, and has done at least four transatlantic crossings, before this), from EVER being able to obtain the cat 1 safety certificate, no matter how safe it is. Can anyone advise here? Have I got this right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 $940 renewal fee Yes Customs will require to sight your Cat 1 before they will give you a Zarpa ( exit certificate ) which you will need to clear into all other countries. Talk to your local YNZ safety inspector or Angus Willison head inspector, your boat will ne exempt from the minimum length requirements if you have history of its past voyages and you have the experience to sail it is my picking. However call them and confirm this before you go any further would be my advice. Alternatively you can register offshore and avoid all the above, but that’s an other can of worms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks Jon. How can I find out about that whole other can of worms? (From a nz perspective, rather than from the perspective of the flagged country). I believe my boat may still be registered in Denmark. And how is my experience assessed? Through formal qualification? How can I demonstrate years of offshore sailing experience (which I have), without such? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 You need to speak with Angus or your preferred inspector, and get the information directly. This avoids mistakes. You do not need formal qualifications, but you do need experience, including previous offshore voyages for you or a crew member. The process is not as formal as some here believe. I've almost always found it reasonable. If you call Angus early, and get them involved, that will begin the process on the right foot, and will help, as they will see you are trying to comply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Plus there is actually not much in the regs I don't do, or don't have before departure anyway... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,587 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Easiest and cheapest solution is offshore registry. There is a surprising number doing it or looking into it now. If like me you have no other passport the options seem to be: Langkawi. Same price as NZ but easy and no hassles. A mob in Germany. Cheap as chips and believed to be adequate. I believe Jersey has a category for commonwealth citizens. Need to look further into that. All the other possibilities (Panama, Cayman raro) seem set up for superyacht owners to dodge tax and aren't really suitable (way too expensive) The German option looks good assuming it works. My biggest worry is word will get out that we are all sidestepping the rules and the plonkers will make up new rules to stop us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 A minimum length requirement? LOL, I guess Webb Chiles' Moore 24 wouldn't qualify (if he were a NZer) - the one he is currently finishing his 6th circumnavigation in. Not to mention the two identical 18' open boats he sailed 35,000 miles in! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 12m minimum LOA by memory, newer regulation which I read, but cant find it now. I dont have a problem with most cat 1 requirements, which I see as simply reflecting good, safe seamanship. I DO have a problem with a minimum length requirement, (for the obvious reasons, alluded to, above), as well as the ongoing costs of maintaining part B registration, AND the fact that safety certificates are only valid for one month, after issue, which puts undue (and possibly unsafe) time pressure on the whole process (eg, if people may be tempted to risk less clement weather, in order for their safety certificate not to lapse, whilst waiting for a better window). If people are bypassing the regs, then perhaps it has something to do with their unreasonable nature? Ultimately, unreasonable regs may promote, (rather than prevent), unsafe seamanship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Sorry Yourmomm, that 12m is not right -tha'ts in the powerboat section. IIRC there is no min for yachts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Ok. Was wondering why I couldn't find reference to this, again. Is there a pdf to download with correct information islandtime? Best I could come up was the I spector's checklist: https://www.google.com/amp/s/astrolabesailing.com/2014/03/24/yachting-nz-cat-1/amp/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I dont have a problem with most cat 1 requirements, which I see as simply reflecting good, safe seamanship. I DO have a problem with a minimum length requirement, (for the obvious reasons, alluded to, above), as well as the ongoing costs of maintaining part B registration, AND the fact that safety certificates are only valid for one month, after issue, which puts undue (and possibly unsafe) time pressure on the whole process (eg, if people may be tempted to risk less clement weather, in order for their safety certificate not to lapse, whilst waiting for a better window). If people are bypassing the regs, then perhaps it has something to do with their unreasonable nature? Ultimately, unreasonable regs may promote, (rather than prevent), unsafe seamanship. Blimey, You are onto it, those are the fundamental issues with the whole system... Shame the system administrators weren't as quick on the uptake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Ok. Was wondering why I couldn't find reference to this, again. Is there a pdf to download with correct information islandtime? Best I could come up was the I spector's checklist: https://www.google.com/amp/s/astrolabesailing.com/2014/03/24/yachting-nz-cat-1/amp/ Link on Yachting NZ's page (under 'Racing', cause offshore cruisers do a lot of that...) https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/resources/yachting-new-zealand-safety-regulations-sailing-2017-2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Thanks. Hmmm. By those definitions, mine is a 'sports boat'. Never would have called it that, myself. But the sportsboat regs only refer to category A and category B, neither of which are offshore categories... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 What sort of boat do you have? The stability requirements are a major hoop to jump through for CAT 1, although you can probably get grandfathered through if its already sailed here from Denmark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 643 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Am I missing something here, you can sail off around NZ anywhere anytime with most insurance companies you are covered out to the 200 mile zone,nz waters? Could if keen go as far south south as Campbell islands or north of 3 kings, which I suspect would encounter more weather bombs and wave height situations than one sailing up to the islands. So why is cat1 so important to ynz/mnz?? Why do you have to prove offshore experience? If it purely an exercise to save search n rescue costs to the tax payer. why not have an insurance scheme that one needs to take out before venturing offshore?? Having a vessel met a certain standard insures nothing,offshore experience crew with a rogue skipper then what?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Yep you can sail offshore 200miles with most insurance companies...but that's not the same as getting clearance to land at a foreign port... I really dont mind requirements in relation to offshore experience and safety equipment/communications/such like. They're all pretty sensible. And if crew were competent, and a skipper was not, and did not respond to their advice, there would soon be a mutiny. You dont let someone else take a risk with your life. I doubt the situation would arise, as you wouldn't get on a boat, if you didnt trust the skipper? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 The skipper is legally responsible. You sign on as crew, you are legally obliged to follow his/her commands. Choose your skippers carefully. A mutiny would be interesting legally.im not sure what would happen... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtwo 157 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 So I'm calling Maritime NZ out as being a bunch of inefficient useless thieving arseholes cowardly hiding behind some w^$@r law that allows them to blatant rip of NZ recreational boaters. Dump the useless shits and get CAA to run it instead. +1. Really you would get a better result having the local Kindergarden Social Committee do the job. CAA would be total overkill. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Yourmomm 2 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 It gets messy. I read this a while back https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10500650 Sheesh. Anyone know what the actual conditions were? 25knots, or gale? (Article says both). Have to say, the vessel sounds pretty unsafe... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Agreed, less than desirable, but nothing there that makes it a distress situation. Fix the compass light, even with a torch, just rig something. It was a NE, on the W coast - downwind to Nelson! Take a cement pill, and get on with it! 25 or 35, that should be no issue. Beating into it would be very tedious though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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