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Cutting a slot in a carbon mast


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3 hours ago, 44forty said:

That looks like a bi-turbo elder ? 

It is an Elder, yes. 

3 hours ago, Deep Purple said:

That's very cool thanks Matt. New halyards are in process with a drop in size for the kite (sorry crew). Some good ideas there

Always amazes me how the NZTYS embrace the turbo elders despite their record of capsizes and sinkings but reject the north island designs of Shaw, Elliott and BBW (and probably others)

Then again if 2020 accounts and scarcity of published minutes are anything to go by it seems they do nought but spend more than they earn galavanting over the country.

Enabled by Yachting NZ to be sole arbitrator of the TY rules despite coming up with nothing in the latest regulation update, failing to address the void  between similar boats racing in the same fleet under different sections or a growing movement and opportunity to cater for exciting boats that people want to sail. Can you imagine the NZ Multihull Club being the sole arbitrator of multihull safety regs in NZ with no oversight by YNZ? No wonder progressive TY fleets are leaving the NZTYS. Yet member or not, in order to race as a TY you have to succumb to their 40 year old rules and thinking

ooos thread drift

 

Having been well involved in the latest 2 Elder capsizing events, I can say they weren’t overly the boats fault. In the latest one, winds of over 60 knots were recorded. The boat had sailed through sever of such gusts at the point it was decided to pull the pin. The boat was hit by a further gust, side on, with both sails partially down,  and no steerage. A R780 capsized, a Thompson was swamped, and a mast or two broken. 14(?) MOB’s. The previous capsize, the boat was hit with a 40+ knot gust, with someone with little experience briefly on the helm while other jobs were tended too (changing to a smaller kite 😬)
 

Never heard of one actually sinking though?

I believe the rules were recently changed to allow a greater max beam, which will allow many more of the ‘sport boat’ style boats to comply? Albeit, without trapezes, with minimum size outboards, etc  

The performance trailer yacht scene in the South Island is in quite good shape in my opinion. Many boats have new, younger and enthusiastic owners. 
 

I saw your comment on FB about the drive time from you to Aviemore. We’re you serious? Should be a good turn out of boats worth racing against. 

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34 minutes ago, mattm said:

I saw your comment on FB about the drive time from you to Aviemore. We’re you serious? Should be a good turn out of boats worth racing against. 

A pilgrimage to the big island is definitely on the agenda. Discussed it over alcohol with Paul Davies :-). I was thinking either Nelson or Waikawa regattas. But anything is possible. Not this year due to Covid uncertainties.

Will have a look at notice of race. Long way to drive to find out you're excluded As I understand it there is no sport trailer yacht division. We have a 300kg bulb, legal bunks, stanchions and lifelines, no ropes down below but if they apply the same rule as they did to Fantail then we don't even qualify as a sport trailer yacht. Our sistership 44Forty has a TY rating but evidently it's only provisional until they measure it which has never happened - clipboards, tapes and pull-downs....... and we can;'t piggy-back on their approval anyway.

Oh and I got told that in order to register as a trailer yacht or sport trailer yacht I need to get a 6.2hp motor instead of the 6hp I have that pushes us at 8 knots. And, I'll need to apply, and be issued a new 4xxx sail number which means all my sails have to be changed. I can't use my existing sail number unless I pay YNZ $400 to use it as a personalise TY number (you can't make this sh*t up)

Things are picking up in the upper north island with Whangarei leading the charge. (understand they recently bailed from NZTYA)

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IMG_0151.jpg

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1 hour ago, Deep Purple said:

A pilgrimage to the big island is definitely on the agenda. Discussed it over alcohol with Paul Davies :-). I was thinking either Nelson or Waikawa regattas. But anything is possible. Not this year due to Covid uncertainties.

Will have a look at notice of race. Long way to drive to find out you're excluded As I understand it there is no sport trailer yacht division. We have a 300kg bulb, legal bunks, stanchions and lifelines, no ropes down below but if they apply the same rule as they did to Fantail then we don't even qualify as a sport trailer yacht. Our sistership 44Forty has a TY rating but evidently it's only provisional until they measure it which has never happened - clipboards, tapes and pull-downs....... and we can;'t piggy-back on their approval anyway.

Oh and I got told that in order to register as a trailer yacht or sport trailer yacht I need to get a 6.2hp motor instead of the 6hp I have that pushes us at 8 knots. And, I'll need to apply, and be issued a new 4xxx sail number which means all my sails have to be changed. I can't use my existing sail number unless I pay YNZ $400 to use it as a personalise TY number (you can't make this sh*t up)

Things are picking up in the upper north island with Whangarei leading the charge. (understand they recently bailed from NZTYA)

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Yeah we dis-affiliated from NZTYA  . No hard feelings it’s just another fee on top of the YNZ one for very little return .
 

In the 3 years I’ve been trailer yacht convenor I’ve had no communication from them , which is fine cause they are at the other end of the country after all .

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2 hours ago, mattm said:

You need to really enjoy the after party to find them acceptable to sleep on. 

By comparison our accomodations are salubrious :-) forward double, Mid-ships saloon with storage and owners double cabin under the cockpit :-)

The prod tube forms a hanging locker. You hang stuff over it to get less wet

It really opens up with the plate down :-)

 

 

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Just now, Black Panther said:

Nice, I can see cooking the roast chicken then kicking back to binge watch Netflix. A real home away from home.

That looks like a neon set top box strapped to the compression post . Really liking the warm timber glow in the aft cabin 

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2 hours ago, Deep Purple said:

A pilgrimage to the big island is definitely on the agenda. Discussed it over alcohol with Paul Davies :-). I was thinking either Nelson or Waikawa regattas. But anything is possible. Not this year due to Covid uncertainties.

Will have a look at notice of race. Long way to drive to find out you're excluded As I understand it there is no sport trailer yacht division. We have a 300kg bulb, legal bunks, stanchions and lifelines, no ropes down below but if they apply the same rule as they did to Fantail then we don't even qualify as a sport trailer yacht. Our sistership 44Forty has a TY rating but evidently it's only provisional until they measure it which has never happened - clipboards, tapes and pull-downs....... and we can;'t piggy-back on their approval anyway.

Oh and I got told that in order to register as a trailer yacht or sport trailer yacht I need to get a 6.2hp motor instead of the 6hp I have that pushes us at 8 knots. And, I'll need to apply, and be issued a new 4xxx sail number which means all my sails have to be changed. I can't use my existing sail number unless I pay YNZ $400 to use it as a personalise TY number (you can't make this sh*t up)

Things are picking up in the upper north island with Whangarei leading the charge. (understand they recently bailed from NZTYA)

Screen Shot 2021-08-29 at 12.41.23 PM.png

 

IMG_0151.jpg

I'm not sure the modified Elders ever met this rule either... 

(i) The internal cabin length (excluding area under the cockpit) shall be not less than 40 percent of the overall length of the yacht excluding any prod or bowsprit.

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Someone is watching......

Actually I worked out I need a 6.032172 so will my 6hp suffice? While the rule says 0.6kw per metre their translation to .25hp per foot is out.

I have no problem with carrying a motor, it's the arbitrary LOA thrown together by people that think they know more than designers and marine engineers. That displacement, windage, prop size, torque, gearing, 2/4stroke play no part in determining a safety factor

 

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Pretty sure an amendment to the Sailing Instructions isn't the place to be making a change to the eligibility requirements of the Notice of Race.

Hope your getting some enjoyment from annoying the hell out of them, about all your going to get by the looks of things.

Whangarei definitely got some good things going on, dinghy's and trailer yachts all growing fleets, still reasonable keel boat turn out at times too.

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Yep, I'm coming up to Whangarei weekend after coastal for a regatta. Should be fun to see where the fleet are at prior to Bay Week. I think Elevation is coming plus a couple from BOI and as many others as we can rope in. 

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Sorry for the thread drift.

But NZTYA got it wrong in the mid 90s when they refused to recognise the only new boats getting built were fast ones.

I wanted a remit where Cat A was (almost) anything goes as long as it was legal on a trailer. Then the Thompsons and 5.9s could have stayed in the fold with hiking straps, and the Magics could have joined in too. Bar takings would have gone through the roof.

But no.... So I went off keelboat racing.

Phil - I had it the other way too. RNZYS wasn't going to let me race when I shifted to Auckland because I had a T4XXX sail number.

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Jono - same old,  same old - NZTYA have self determined to a very strange place...So many opportunties to be inclusive and progressive...just not. Higly predictable and boring.

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1 hour ago, Deep Purple said:

Someone is watching......

Actually I worked out I need a 6.032172 so will my 6hp suffice? While the rule says 0.6kw per metre their translation to .25hp per foot is out.

I have no problem with carrying a motor, it's the arbitrary LOA thrown together by people that think they know more than designers and marine engineers. That displacement, windage, prop size, torque, gearing, 2/4stroke play no part in determining a safety factor

 

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Interesting isn't it Eliott5.9 is 0.6kw x 5.9m ( elliott 5.9) =3.54kw OR  0.25hp x19.357 feet= 4.839hp (not 4.7472hp!) - quite a diffence - the rule is an ASS.  So to race a 5.9 in an open trailer yacht event you would need a 5hp motor.  A 5hp motor on a 5.9 isn't going to make it any safer in 40 Knots plus...

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I’m not well versed in the politics of the NZTYA, but I think this apartment distinction of ‘sport trailer yacht’ somewhat muddies the water. My understanding is you are either accepted as a TY (and comply with the TY rules, including outboard size), or you don’t. Sure, some that are accepted are more sporty than others - the Elders, Thompson’s, The Boss, Unleashed etc. but they are accepted as TY’s, have a rating, and a required min outboard size. The rest, don’t/aren’t measured, so aren’t (currently) considered TY’s - they may be yachts that live on trailers, but TY is actually a class, with its own rules. 
Aviemore does have a sport boat div, although it’s often only one or two boats. There has been a few different Shaw 650’s, last time there was a T870. Some years, a Noelex 30 has won the sport boat div, as it doesn’t (didn’t?) measure as a TY, so that was the only div it was allowed in. 
I hope the apparent change of max width will allow more boats like T750’s and Deep Purple etc to comply and join in.

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24 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

I've often thought a good rule for any regatta would be "the whole crew shall sleep and take meals on board for the duration of the regatta. "

Then get rid of all the other silly stuff referring to accommodation. 

That might exclude more people of advancing years, rather than boats with no ‘traditional’ accomodation. Plenty of space in a sport boat cockpit. 
 

I’m also not coming to your Foiling Moth regatta. 

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15 hours ago, Jono G said:

Sorry for the thread drift.

But NZTYA got it wrong in the mid 90s when they refused to recognise the only new boats getting built were fast ones.

I wanted a remit where Cat A was (almost) anything goes as long as it was legal on a trailer. Then the Thompsons and 5.9s could have stayed in the fold with hiking straps, and the Magics could have joined in too. Bar takings would have gone through the roof.

But no.... So I went off keelboat racing.

Phil - I had it the other way too. RNZYS wasn't going to let me race when I shifted to Auckland because I had a T4XXX sail number.

Quite ironic that your boat then went on to win every major trophy in the south many years later ! 

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1 hour ago, mattm said:

 the Elders, Thompson’s, The Boss, Unleashed etc. but they are accepted as TY’s, have a rating, and a required min outboard size


I hope the apparent change of max width will allow more boats like T750’s and Deep Purple etc to comply and join in.

Leaving aside the outboard issue, they are portable, I'm quite happy to borrow a 7hp to come and race

however the politics of measurement can't be ignored. While those boats have been approved it is quite clear some of them don't measure under at least one part of the rule where interpretation isn't contestable, ie measurment

deep purple, 44forty and fantail and probably many other boats up here have the correct freeboard, have the correct headroom, have the correct cabin length. It's only their floor space contestable by qualified designers and naval architects due to poor writing in the rules where the term continous is not defined. It appears there is ambiguity as to whether that means bulkheads or ring frames. All these boats comply with the old beam rule

The reason the sport trailer yacht class has foundered is because the nztya has failed to accomodate them. Frankly if you own a sport trailer yacht in the South Island then you are bumped into the trailer yacht class even if you dont qualify. If you own a sport trailer yacht in the north island you are told to go away.  No wonder you dont get them at events. 
 

And at the end of the day, the only real differences between the 2 is that sport trailer yachts don't have to actually have the bunks fitted but they all do and they don't have to carry a motor but they all do albeit mostly smaller than the ty rule. There aren't any other significant differences

incidentally the boss lives Whitianga now next to dp. Hasn't sailed since she arrived 2 years ago

Prediction, by the time of the next safety regulation update sport trailer yachts will not be under the wing of the nztya

 

 

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