Careful with that Silicone AntiFoul

[Psyche 850]

Pretty sure that if ultrasound worked to prevent fouling there would be some big players out there, maybe it does but when you turn the dial up enough to cook a chicken?

Heres some more on boundary layers and yachting

kim-klaka-how-smooth-a-bottom.pdf

[wheels 544]

Thats a good article. But I need to correct one error. 5 Boaties sitting around discussing the subject will result in 10 answers, not 6.

The overall article highlights the one common point. There is no one simple answer and for every attempt to reduce Hull resistance through the water, there is a whole new set of Physical laws that fight against you.
There is one important point that always needs to be kept in mind. Friction and Resistance to movement is as much your friend as is your enemy. If you have no friction/resistance, you will never sail into the wind at all, nor even sail beam on and you will only ever go as fast down wind as the wind itself. So there needs to be some form of resistance so as things like Hull shape, Rudder shape, Keel shape/size and length, all work in combination, so as to create a forward movement when another force is applied (ie wind in sails). With no friction and resistance, water would simply flow around rather than over a surface. Remember that all the shapes of a Hull are such to create lift through the water.

Said another way to make it easier to understand, a Car tire will give you greater grip the wider it is. But the friction ends up increasing as well, so it's harder to roll on the road and you use more fuel. If you decide to reduce that friction to save fuel, lets say you spray oil on the surface of the tire as you travel, you end up no longer staying on the road. You cannot turn corners, you cannot maintain a straight line and you cannot accelerate etc.

 

[MartinRF 76]

Kim Klaka used to hang out on rec.boats on Usenet.

He is (used to be?) a researcher at an institute or uni in western Australia. Lars Larsson used to be a hydrodynamics professor at the university I got my degrees at (*). My brother was one of his PhD students. My brother met Kim Klaka during a trip down under in 1995.

Now this pops up here. Small planet

/Martin

*) My boat was built in the workshop of the marine engineering department of that university.

Usenet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

[Psyche 850]

I found that article years ago and kept it for occasional re reading, most people know its important but just not how much advantage it is to have a smooth clean hull. 3% is free money! 

[MartinRF 76]

So I ended up doing a complete antifouling 'facelift'. It cost me a month of our sailing season plus, of course, a bunch of money. I went for Hempaspeed TF which is not silicone based so this post is off topic.

Hempaspeed TF is a bit odd to apply as it is rather viscous and I found it would not flow to a smooth surface which is a bit of a dissapointment after all the work. It is glossy which is also a little odd for an antifouling in my experience.

It will be interesting to see if algae and barnacles like it.

/Martin

PS It is my understanding that Hempaspeed TF is currently only released in Scandinavia.

[wheels 544]

Hempaspeed is a "Hydrogel" type AF. In other words, once in the water the surface becomes slimey/slippery to the touch. The idea came about due to the fact that Fish have a natural Hydrogel over their skin which prohibits Barnicles growing on them. Hempaspeed is designed to perform in a similar way.

Please keep the forum informed on how you find the performance of this.

As form smoothness, I have not used it myself, so cannot comment. It is designed to be applied by roller or brush, so I suspect that the type of roller might be important. One designed for applying Gloss top coats would likely be required. ie. Short Mohair.
 

[MartinRF 76]

Yes, I intend to keep you posted.

Yes, short mohair roller. I was coached on the procedure by a recently retired Hempel employee who my old boat building buddy knows through his job as a marine engineer. Disclaimer: my coach admitted that he had no first-hand experience of applying Hempaspeed TF,

I will try to quantify and document the 'smoothness' before launching.

/Martin

[Ex Machina 390]

3 hours ago, MartinRF said:

So I ended up doing a complete antifouling 'facelift'. It cost me a month of our sailing season plus, of course, a bunch of money. I went for Hempaspeed TF which is not silicone based so this post is off topic.

Hempaspeed TF is a bit odd to apply as it is rather viscous and I found it would not flow to a smooth surface which is a bit of a dissapointment after all the work. It is glossy which is also a little odd for an antifouling in my experience.

It will be interesting to see if algae and barnacles like it.

/Martin

PS It is my understanding that Hempaspeed TF is currently only released in Scandinavia.

Sleek looking boat Martin … very little rocker by the looks . What’s the design and where’s the keel/ centreboard ? 

[MartinRF 76]

All about the boat here: https://www.reflectometrist.eu/

/Martin

[Ex Machina 390]

1 hour ago, MartinRF said:

All about the boat here: https://www.reflectometrist.eu/

/Martin

Awesome mate ! 

[MartinRF 76]

Finally hit water today.

/Martin

[twistanshout 0]

Really considering stripping back and using this Hempaspeed tf product. After 3 months how are you finding the fouling?

[Psyche 850]

On 19/06/2022 at 9:38 AM, MartinRF said:

Finally hit water today.

/Martin

any updates Martin?

[MartinRF 76]

8 hours ago, Psyche said:

any updates Martin?

My plan was to wait till after the boat was out of the water.

In short: Works as advertised by which I mean, yes things grow but they are really easily removed. This includes barnacles. I can't just brush them off but a mild nudge with a finger is all that is needed. I have had to clean the boat more but since the work has been easier the sum of work is roughly the same.

The only disappointment is how rough the surface is. I have done some more research and now I know what to use for thinning this paint. I will try that for next season.

I doubt you really have to repaint each season as I detect no change in the properties of this paint and as far as I understand nothing is depleted during the season. When fresh the surface is mildly hydrophobic and this property is restored every time I clean the surface.

/Martin (still sailing when weather and work permits -- have to go  to work now)

[Psyche 850]

Thanks, we will be very interested to see how you get on, how about recoating and touch ups? 

[MartinRF 76]

I will know nothing about that until April or May.

There will be an update if I observe anything interesting when the boat leaves the water for this season in a few weeks time.

/Martin

[MartinRF 76]

This Sunday:

I cleaned bottoms from some green algae on Saturday using my secondary method. The ease of cleaning has not changed over time. The bottoms are clean save for a two small patches I missed. The paint look 100% intact and the mildly hydrophobic behavior is restored after each cleaning. I would guess it would work for at least another season as is. I will, however apply a fresh layer of paint hoping I will achieve a smoother finish this time.

/Martin

[Thibault 0]

Hello

I have read the discussion with great interest.  I plan a new AF in march in NZ (whangarei)for my catamaran used for offshore cruising ( we are still in fiji). We currently have ablative, and on tropical waters it does not prevent alguae growth,  so we have to clean the hull ourselves every month , which increases the abrasion the AF, but no other option to keep it clean.

I am really interested by silicone or hydrogel based product, especially for our use: we live onboard, so it is not a big deal to wash it ourselves regularly by diving, and our boat is fast enough to have above 10knots speed on crossings. 

 

Big question is what can we find NZ ? Hempaspeed, though looking to be the perfect match, seems still not available and I Did notsucceed knowing when it will be. Any advice on potential alternatives ? 

Thanks

Thibault 

[Ralph East 0]

On 28/09/2022 at 8:07 AM, MartinRF said:

I have done some more research and now I know what to use for thinning this paint.

What thinner is this Martin?
I have bought (in Norway)Hempaspeed for my 44 feet steel boat and will apply it in spring.
If you want to share your application in further details, Martin, I would very much appreciate.
Rolf

[Go-Be 0]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:30 PM, Thibault said:

Big question is what can we find NZ ? Hempaspeed, though looking to be the perfect match, seems still not available and I Did notsucceed knowing when it will be. Any advice on potential alternatives ? 

Thibault, what did you find in the end? We are in the same situation: Liveaboard cruisers looking for recommendations on where to get silicone based AF done in NZ.