Warpaint Antil foul problems

[itzgreg 2]

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems with Warpaint. I recently applied it strictly 'by the rule book' over Altex no 5 after getting approval the two were totally compatable. However a few months down the track the Warpaint began to 'explode' and part company from the substrate. This happened in patches all over the bottom even where prep sanding had gone back to the original undercoat ( glass, over wood).

Of course I contacted the manufacturers, Wet & Forget, but didnt get any satisfactory response except that the old antifouling was too thick. This was judged by a few phone pics I sent and no on site inspection. Subsequent tests have proved this wasnt the case. Disappointingly, no further backup or support has been offered by the company.

So now I am in a quandry as to what to do. Best solution will be to grind back all the new Warpaint and go back to Altex No 5 which has always proved a good product.  If any one has has similar problems or has some possible answers as to what went wrong it would be greatly appreciated 

[Psyche 633]

Sorry to hear that, sometimes these paint systems are not compatible for unknown reasons, given what you have i would remove the warpaint back to No5 and repaint with No5 or use something like altex primashield as a tie coat if you want to use warpaint again. Maybe  its worth going right back, interprotect and hot coat the antifoul on?

[itzgreg 2]

Yes I agree........but one helluva job. Certainly wouldnt use Warpaint again after getting treated like an idiot when I asked them for their comments on what may have caused the problems.  They did repeat that Warpaint is perfectly compatable with No5 and that was about the extent of their involvement . Basically they blamed me even though I have been boatbuilding and applying anti fouling for over 60 years without problems....20 years of which involved professionally applying anti fouling.

I know things go wrong for various reasons but my main disappointment was in Wet & Forget's attitude when I tried to talk it over with them.they just didnt seem to give a toss!..

But thanks for your comments.much appreciated.

[harrytom 643]

1 hour ago, itzgreg said:

Yes I agree........but one helluva job. Certainly wouldnt use Warpaint again after getting treated like an idiot when I asked them for their comments on what may have caused the problems.  They did repeat that Warpaint is perfectly compatable with No5 and that was about the extent of their involvement . Basically they blamed me even though I have been boatbuilding and applying anti fouling for over 60 years without problems....20 years of which involved professionally applying anti fouling.

I know things go wrong for various reasons but my main disappointment was in Wet & Forget's attitude when I tried to talk it over with them.they just didnt seem to give a toss!..

But thanks for your comments.much appreciated.

A case for consumer affairs  comes to mind,maybe go back to wetnforget and mention its a breach of the fair trading act,never know they may come to the party. nothing to loose, Its based on a sakes person saying that it compatiable. Verbal stands

[itzgreg 2]

Ha ha....when I suggested that on the phone to the manager of Wet and Forget he told me he would sue me then ranted for a while before  cutting the call  and hanging up........not a nice company.........I thought at the least a  refund on the purchase price might have been a nice gesture.

[harrytom 643]

a quick google and yep need to remove old ablative first, never trust a sales person

https://www.wetandforget.co.nz/pages/warpaint-faqs

Which antifoulings can WAR PAINT be applied over?

The hard types present no problems, provided, of course, that the existing system is sound. A wet sand is necessary to prepare the surface for recoat – any defects must also be repaired as necessary. Existing antifoulings of the “soft” type should, in general, be removed. This is to prevent the possibility of the soft system from clearing or suffering cohesive failure beneath the harder, stronger product. Should the soft system not be removed, failure on recoat is not guaranteed – indeed soft systems have been recoated with good results in the past, but the chance of problems is significant.

[itzgreg 2]

Thought I could trust the guy that developed the product and as I said I am not a newbie to using antifouling paint and in fact in this application I took the build up of old stuff right back which I do every few years, and as I understand it Ablative is somewhere in between soft and hard so apples should stick to apples. But I dont really think it was a reaction between the two different paints as the Warpaint also didnt adhere to the areas where the old paint had been taken right back to the white undercoat.  It was the way the Warpaint 'erupted' that I am curious about . Still surprises me that Wet & Forget werent the least bit interested in why their product failed so miserably...I have plans to take this further so watch this space

[Ex Machina 366]

Is it still actually “warpaint “ or has wet n forget bought the branding and whacked it on something they get cheap ? 

[itzgreg 2]

Who knows.....but couldnt find any chinese writting on the can!!!

[K4309 258]

On 1/07/2023 at 12:39 PM, itzgreg said:

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems with Warpaint. I recently applied it strictly 'by the rule book' over Altex no 5 after getting approval the two were totally compatable. However a few months down the track the Warpaint began to 'explode' and part company from the substrate. This happened in patches all over the bottom even where prep sanding had gone back to the original undercoat ( glass, over wood).

I'm not really following why you are upset?

You've put a new AF over an existing ablative. Ablatives are designed to fall off. What has happened? Its fallen off?

Then, in other patches you've applied the new AF direct to original undercoat. Does this mean you haven't used an epoxy barrier / tie coat such as interprotect? 

Again, if I've read your post correctly,and you've applied an ablative AF direct to glass (over wood), why are you surprised you are having problems? You need an expoxy sealer / tie coat.

You haven't mentioned why you changed from Altex #5 to Warpaint? you said Altex was always a good product, so why the change?

Two comments I would make:

1) Some of the worst paint / AF jobs I have seen or heard about were done by professionals. Just because you say you've been doing this for x number of years and was previously a professional doesn't mean you've sat down and read the instructions and spec sheets.

2) Why would you take a verbal something is OK? You need to sit down and read the instructions and spec sheets. Products change, specifications change. We all know most AF's have changed formula in the last few years because of the twaddle environment rules.

Sure, sometimes salesmen will say what they need to say at the end of the financial year to clear stock or hit their target. But there is no evidence of this here. And if you haven't bothered to read the instructions or do a simple google search as to compatibility and requirements then that is your problem, not the retailer. Within 7 posts, someone has found written confirmation that says you were wrong.

If you don't do your own due diligence, how can you blame someone else? Basic personal responsibility. That, and its not clear to me why or how you expect a retailer to sort out problems on your boat for you.

Its become apparent you've threatened your retailer with legal action, then can't understand why they wont help you. Generally, if you want something from someone, you need to be nice to them. Otherwise they tell you to f*ck off. It is basic human behaviour. First rule of calling a companies call centre, be very nice and pleasant to the poor person you are dealing with. Then they may help you. If you bitch and moan, they put you on hold and generally give you the run around. Just saying.

[itzgreg 2]

Appreciate your input but its a pity you havent been taking in what I am saying...I was aware of all the points you made and did everything according 'to plan' as I always do.And my approach to the company concerned was very aimable  and who said I threatened legal action?  Seems like maybe you should get a job with Wet & Forget if you think their approach is sound business practice.........or maybe you already do work there...possibly in a senior position.....lets let  other decide that point!

[waikiore 399]

No antifoul paint man should recommend putting a hard scrubbable (warpaint) over a soft ablative, it will be doomed from the start, sad that you were given obviously crook advice

 

[aardvarkash10 960]

Warpaint isn't a hard antifoul. 

Ours is now 2 years old and slightly overdue.  I'll use it again, normal recoat precautions apply.

[waikiore 399]

Its extremely hard compared to what i use ,( have been dealing  with antifoul since the mid seventies) before Micron 25 -the first self polishing ablative was launched in NZ. After that revelation -they still were allowed Tributyl Tin in them then, I swore that I would never again touch E Type or Jet Black or Red Hand . And have been happy on launch and yachts ever since. Sanding antifoul is not to be recommended for anyone.

[whitepointer 34]

Any recoat of different antifouls should have a coat of  primercon first I would think, that's what I would do, I have applied warpaint last October, over new epoxy barrier coat, happy so far

[w44vi 17]

I have Warpaint over Alex No.5, Its been on for 3yrs, due for replacement, I've had no problems still working ok 

   

[waikiore 399]

I give it a hell waterblast and the rest falls off, achieves two things , a good fresh water rinse-so that it drys properly and the new paint totally adheres -and no build up going forward, aim for every two years-but last time got three  (Westhaven) works even better in the mixed water of Wairau Cove.

[Ex Machina 366]

38 minutes ago, waikiore said:

I give it a hell waterblast and the rest falls off, achieves two things , a good fresh water rinse-so that it drys properly and the new paint totally adheres -and no build up going forward, aim for every two years-but last time got three  (Westhaven) works even better in the mixed water of Wairau Cove.

The mixed water of Wairau cove is an antifoul in itself