Any experience with a Whiting 40?

[B.light 0]

Hi All, I’m looking at a Whiting 40 as a liveaboard with the intention of getting it prepped for a Cat 1 to take it offshore in a few years. The one I’m looking at has been very well looked after and is a nice size for within my budget.

I’m just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these yachts and what I might need to look out for? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Island Time 1,235]

Which one are you looking at? Several have done quite a few offshore miles, and generally a good boat. However, check the keel bolts and joint very carefully. IIRC they have only a single row of bolts. One of these went missing without trace some years ago, and I always wondered if it was a keel problem. I'm not saying they are not good boats, but I'd be doing a very careful appraisal of the hull to keel attachments.

If the boat has not been Cat 1 recently, it could cost you a lot to get cat 1.... 

[B.light 0]

Thanks for the response Island Time, very good points! I'm looking at this one- https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/4019764571 

It hasn't had Cat 1 as far as I'm aware, but plan to spread the upgrade costs over the years I remain in NZ. What are the big ticket items for Cat 1 that I'd need to budget for? I'm already factoring in the additional safety gear, storm sails and replacing standing rigging and lifelines. What other major things I would need to consider? 

[Island Time 1,235]

Pretty big list. Download it from ynz and you'll see. However contrary to what others on here may say, there is little in the list that I wouldn't have.

A few things that come to mind as well as your list are:

A decent autopilot capable of steering in virtually any conditions

Liferaft, medical kit (several thousand), offshore comms (sat ph, SSB, Starlink, whatever you decide, still a few thou more), steering cables, thorough rudder inspection, tools  spares, courses (sea survival, medical etc). 

It can/will cost 10s of thousands to get a boat and crew ready.

[southernman 73]

I would also say that 30hp is quite undersized for that boat in my opinion for a boat headed offshore.  Loaded up she would struggle to make headway.  

[marinheiro 352]

5 hours ago, Island Time said:

Which one are you looking at? Several have done quite a few offshore miles, and generally a good boat. However, check the keel bolts and joint very carefully. IIRC they have only a single row of bolts. One of these went missing without trace some years ago, and I always wondered if it was a keel problem. I'm not saying they are not good boats, but I'd be doing a very careful appraisal of the hull to keel attachments.

If the boat has not been Cat 1 recently, it could cost you a lot to get cat 1.... 

Quartermaster was lost in the 94 Queens Birthday storm with all 3 crew. The empty liferaft was found by the Monowai

The conjecture at Sandspit where she sailed from was that the super structure was on the light side and she may have lost windows or had the cabin sides stove in.

I have been told there was a very harrowing call, shortly before she went off the air, from skipper Bob Rimmer to Kerikeri radio in total despair saying "I just don't know what to do". Tragic stuff

 

[Jon 360]

51 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Pretty big list. Download it from ynz and you'll see. However contrary to what others on here may say, there is little in the list that I wouldn't have.

A few things that come to mind as well as your list are:

A decent autopilot capable of steering in virtually any conditions

Liferaft, medical kit (several thousand), offshore comms (sat ph, SSB, Starlink, whatever you decide, still a few thou more), steering cables, thorough rudder inspection, tools  spares, courses (sea survival, medical etc). 

It can/will cost 10s of thousands to get a boat and crew ready.

Medical kit can be done for a few hundred not thousand, however the ready to go kits are close to that.

Get all the non scripted stuff from a discount chemist chain, skin stapler and Israeli bandages from online, then take the list of restricted drugs to your doctor when your doing a regular visit, then take this to Belmont Pharmacy or the likes that are used to doing this.

I did the above and already had a trauma kit that was out of date so used that but you can also just use click clack plastic boxes.

mine was well under $200

[Black Panther 1,587]

Last time I did a cat 1 med kit (2016) I did what Jon said, $1,000. 

I'm with Matt, unlikely to get  much change out of 20k.

[Psyche 633]

2 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Last time I did a cat 1 med kit (2016) I did what Jon said, $1,000. 

I'm with Matt, unlikely to get  much change out of 20k.

Ive never done it myself but a mate who got cat 1 doing what i would call enhanced maintenance admitted to double that figure. It adds up- rigging, raft, sails 20k no problem!

[Jon 360]

It really comes down to where you are starting from and how much time you have to put into the prep versus paying for it.

I’m in the middle of it right now (cruising in Fiji) and have spent less than $15k, let’s telly it up 

Raft. Second hand 3yr old, $1500 - ASS plus Offshore medic $1200 - first aid kit $200 - sail overhaul $2500 - flares, life jacket service, fire extinguishers, eprib $1000 - Two Cat 1 inspections $500 - offshore insurance $4000

On top of the above but would have done this regardless, you can include or not, haulout and Antifoul including out of water inspection, engine service, rig check including furler greasing, provisions $1000 but this is 4 months food. 
 

We are finding everything is cheaper in Fiji except alcohol 

But remember there’s no such thing as a cheap boat, our rig is 7 years old and hull is 15y, it’s always cheaper to start from the highest point you can afford and many of the costs have a expiration or service date so you really need to do them as close to departure as possible.

 

[Black Panther 1,587]

How much is a drogue or sea anchor?

[Black Panther 1,587]

Storm jib, trisail, jackstays.

 

As a starting point let's consider a 40ft family cruiser, well maintained and well equipped but now decided to try a first offshore passage. So only looking at extra expense over continuing to cruise coastal.

I'm with Matt no change out of 20k.

What about communication?

[Jon 360]

3 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Storm jib, trisail, jackstays.

 

As a starting point let's consider a 40ft family cruiser, well maintained and well equipped but now decided to try a first offshore passage. So only looking at extra expense over continuing to cruise coastal.

I'm with Matt no change out of 20k.

What about communication?

I’ll accept that it’s 20k if your starting from scratch, that’s why it’s always cheaper to start with a boat that’s well setup

storm jib, trisail and Jackstays aren’t once costs but will have value on many passages and secondhand storm sails are cheap as most never get used

comms have never been cheaper when you compare starlink to setting up ssb from scratch 

anyone want to buy my Irridium Go ?  Can’t see myself using it again 

[marinheiro 352]

6 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Storm jib, trisail, jackstays.

 

As a starting point let's consider a 40ft family cruiser, well maintained and well equipped but now decided to try a first offshore passage. So only looking at extra expense over continuing to cruise coastal.

I'm with Matt no change out of 20k.

What about communication?

And this is just getting "passage ready". Next is "living ready" for want of a better expression, ie for once you are on the hook. 

Typical upgrades can include

• more batteries, charging system, solar panels, wind generator
• stainless steel work - davits, arch etc
• canvas work - dodger, bimini, awnings etc
• extra tankage, water maker
• bigger dinghy and outboard
• water toys

Not saying these are essential but most people seem to finish up spending a fair few $$'s on the above which can start at $10k and just keep growing.

Agree with Jon that a boat that has just been offshore is probably best option but not that many around.

[B.light 0]

Thanks everyone for the advice, very much appreciated!

Considering there's another whiting 40 that's setup for offshore cruising that's listed for about 50k more (out of my price range), I'm quite happy to put the work and money in over the few years while staying in NZ to get it up to the standard. And then at least it's all new gear and within date when I'm ready to go for it. 

[B.light 0]

On 30/08/2023 at 4:28 PM, southernman said:

I would also say that 30hp is quite undersized for that boat in my opinion for a boat headed offshore.  Loaded up she would struggle to make headway.  

This is a bit of a worry then. The low hour engine on this yacht was one of the drawcards for me, but I didn't even consider it being underpowered since it was recently replaced. I'm not sure if I could afford a new one on top of everything else I'd require. I've had a look into this and the rule of thumb is 4hp per tonne and this is 3.33hp/tonne unloaded.

Can this be a safety concern if you're battling wind/currents to get to safety or is it more of a speed preference thing where you would just be painfully slow?

[Black Panther 1,587]

Lots of different opinions on this one. Sounds plenty to me. Others will disagree. 

[Luigi Vercotti 7]

12 minutes ago, B.light said:

This is a bit of a worry then. The low hour engine on this yacht was one of the drawcards for me, but I didn't even consider it being underpowered since it was recently replaced. I'm not sure if I could afford a new one on top of everything else I'd require. I've had a look into this and the rule of thumb is 4hp per tonne and this is 3.33hp/tonne unloaded.

Can this be a safety concern if you're battling wind/currents to get to safety or is it more of a speed preference thing where you would just be painfully slow?

I'd be more inclined to go with the 1hp/ft rule. I have a 32ft over all 24ft waterline with 4 tonne displacement. I have a 3GM30 27hp. I couldn't imagine life with 16hp.

[Island Time 1,235]

30 HP was common for these. Lots of 40 ftrs had 30's - incl many of the farr 1220's.

Island Time had the Volvo 2003, 28hp when I bought her. One day in Wellington in 45 knots I could not get into my berth directly to weather.  Cruising speed was about 6 knots. The Whiting 40 would be about the same weight and performance. Once I upgraded to the 2003T (Turbo version, 43 HP) cruising speed 6.5 - 7, approx. 8 at WOT.  Best economic speed was about 4.9 knots at 0.75ltrs/hour.

Now a VPD2 40hp 4 cyl. More torque and better performance, Cruise at about 7knots, and no problem pushing into a headwind!

[Jon 360]

1 hour ago, B.light said:

Thanks everyone for the advice, very much appreciated!

Considering there's another whiting 40 that's setup for offshore cruising that's listed for about 50k more (out of my price range), I'm quite happy to put the work and money in over the few years while staying in NZ to get it up to the standard. And then at least it's all new gear and within date when I'm ready to go for it. 

Asking and selling prices can be very different things