Frank 157 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 On a recent offshore cruise I noticed some production monohulls seem to have taken stern volumes to extreme levels with transom widths that would do justice to an aircraft carrier, I presume these are influenced by racing classes such as the IMOCA 60 ? Does anyone have experience on how these perform at sea when tight reaching or going to windward ? I would have thought that as swell/wave passes under the stern the forward hull sections would struggle to counter the enormous buoyancy aft producing a very harsh motion.... curious ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
khayyam 68 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 At a guess I'd say much more important to designers of production monohulls is the interior volume. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Beneteau First 36 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 22 hours ago, ex Elly said: Beneteau First 36 Consider the actual water plane surface area of the boat pictured in this angle of heel. My experience in rough sea in Firefly, which weighs 20% less and is 20cm wider than the first 36, is limited to the very short nasty wave sets that kick up around Ushant and some larger stuff during one crossing of the English Chanel. I’ve found the motion to certainly be more violent than in a large displacement vessel, but even beating into 27th in very large swells with a rough sea on top it didn’t kill us. We did have a couple big bangs that made us cast an eye below, though. when hard on the wind it’s not comfortable- but what is? when tight reaching it’s bloody fast and you are jumping off things. The bow sections in the pogo at least are quite broad - it stays on top of the water. If the waves are from behind or quartering you just accelerate away from them - the wave starts to lift the stern and as it does the boat slides away accelerating. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 Good feedback, no surprise I suppose that high volume sterns score heavily in conditions that promote planing and perhaps you compensate with fuller fwd sections. I suppose to that modern forecasting and route planning tools have improved the odds of predicting benign weather where a lighter displacement is going to be an advantage most of the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Coupled to better weather forecasting is that you can more easily afford the time to sit out bad weather - catch up later. If and when you get caught out, you can turn and run more safely, and you can still heave-to, should you need to. If you’re running from bad weather - sitting on 15knots for six hours will move you a fair way from where you were - hopefully to a better spot on the ocean. Firefly easily sits on 15-18kts with 30 behind, reaching more than 20 in the gusts with a bit if surfing, with reefed main and stays’l - an easy sail plan. The bow has not threatened to dig in at any point (yet). The unofficial record for a pogo 36, so I’ve heard, is just under 25kt, set by a factory crew delivering hull No 1 to the La Rochelle boat show - just two weeks after launch. I believe the A2 was outside it’s recommended range.. Sure you need sea room - but we’re talking about offshore, yeah? But for sure beating into even 22kt from Quiberon to Lorient for a few hours made the majority of the (inexperienced) crew reconsider their choice to book non-refundable non- changeable tickets for the next morning - Safe, but uncomfortable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 10 hours ago, DrWatson said: Coupled to better weather forecasting is that you can more easily afford the time to sit out bad weather - catch up later. If and when you get caught out, you can turn and run more safely, and you can still heave-to, should you need to. If you’re running from bad weather - sitting on 15knots for six hours will move you a fair way from where you were - hopefully to a better spot on the ocean. Firefly easily sits on 15-18kts with 30 behind, reaching more than 20 in the gusts with a bit if surfing, with reefed main and stays’l - an easy sail plan. The bow has not threatened to dig in at any point (yet). The unofficial record for a pogo 36, so I’ve heard, is just under 25kt, set by a factory crew delivering hull No 1 to the La Rochelle boat show - just two weeks after launch. I believe the A2 was outside it’s recommended range.. Sure you need sea room - but we’re talking about offshore, yeah? But for sure beating into even 22kt from Quiberon to Lorient for a few hours made the majority of the (inexperienced) crew reconsider their choice to book non-refundable non- changeable tickets for the next morning - Safe, but uncomfortable. Those figures are amazing ! do you ever get any case rattle or movement of the retractable keel ? and what are the polars when fully powered up, hard on the wind in a decent sea ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Heading out this evening Dr? A good breeze to check those polars Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 15 hours ago, Frank said: Those figures are amazing ! do you ever get any case rattle or movement of the retractable keel ? and what are the polars when fully powered up, hard on the wind in a decent sea ? Never had the keel rattle. 2 hours ago, darkside said: Heading out this evening Dr? A good breeze to check those polars Haha! Yes I suspect that could make the keel rattle a little… especially as one got thrown up onto the cliffs! A friend who lives nearby checked lines and fenders and toile the dodger of this morning. I’ll stay home… 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 We are hunkered down (ashore) in Concarneau tonight. 93kn is a good breeze alright. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 5 hours ago, darkside said: We are hunkered down (ashore) in Concarneau tonight. 93kn is a good breeze alright. It’ll be less there… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 18 hours ago, darkside said: We are hunkered down (ashore) in Concarneau tonight. 93kn is a good breeze alright. How did you fare in Concarneau? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Pretty quiet nighy there really. Driving towards Paris this morning there were trees down on the big roads for the first 150km or so. Great to see the respect for sailors in France. Eric Tabarlys home town had a billboard to let you know. Good fleet of mini off shore yachts in Concarneau. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Storm Ciarán whips Western Europe, blowing record winds in France leaving millions without power Recording-breaking winds in France and across much of Western Europe left at least seven people dead and injured others as Storm Ciarán swept through the continent, plunging vast numbers into darkness, devastating homes and causing travel mayhem in several countries. Winds of more than 190km/h slammed the northern tip of France’s Atlantic coast, uprooting trees and blowing out windows. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/storm-ciaran-whips-western-europe-blowing-record-winds-in-france-leaving-millions-without-power/HFQNP2ZOIJGURFWMNQFH5BPSTM/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MartinRF 53 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Record breaking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1703 Daniel Defoe's compilation of the damage is fascinating stuff. /Martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 95 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 On 4/11/2023 at 9:47 AM, MartinRF said: Record breaking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_storm_of_1703 Daniel Defoe's compilation of the damage is fascinating stuff. /Martin Major thread drift here:i followed that link and I see Wikipedia pleading for money to keep going. What do think about it being ad free etc or has it done it's dash and should fold? I don't use it much as it's not always accurate and annoying that it opens the app on my phone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 I still use it and donate regularly, its not perfect but still preferable to sites with inane and irritating adds which are mostly irrelevant to me. I can see the day when I will pay for add free you tube. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 I also contribute, it's a good resource - albeit you have to take the info with a grain of salt. And if you're really interested in the subject you searched for on Wiki, you can delve deeper in all sorts of other ways. Love that it's ad free and a not-for-profit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank 157 Posted November 8, 2023 Author Share Posted November 8, 2023 "take the info with a grain of salt" (Critical Thinking ?) and "not always accurate" likely should be applied to any information on the info-bahn. The first instance of duff or slightly duff gen probably goes back to caveman rock drawings or we wouldn't have unicorns which incidentally may have existed at the end of the last ice age , either that or it may be duff https://www.google.com/search?q="Elasmotherium+sibiricum&oq="Elasmotherium+sibiricum&aqs=chrome..69i57.1841j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Addem 95 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 18 hours ago, Frank said: I can see the day when I will pay for add free you tube. I already do. And avoid free to air TV. Ads drive me nuts. As does reality TV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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