IRC is good for.....

[El Toro 97]

Mine went passed my bottocks before going in the bin...

 

The only good thing I can say about IRC, is that I got to weigh the boat...and even that was stuffed up.

 

Each to their own, if people want to race it, good for them and I wish them luck...

 

Mark I think you'll find I wouldnt have come forth.... as my IRC cert was before I upgraded the fast bits. It did put me up and above some of the 40s though when I was just a humble old red couch..which to me throws the whole windowless room bit straight out the window.

 

So whats IRC useful for....?

Toliet Paper

[markm 30]

Mark I think you'll find I wouldnt have come forth.... as my IRC cert was before I upgraded the fast bits. It did put me up and above some of the 40s though when I was just a humble old red couch

 

Yes, but you didn't really think I'd let a minor point like that ruin a perfectly good wind up?

[Guest]

So the theme is rather solid, that being don't bother.

 

I liked Bulls post and it's subtly

 

And as always Marks hardly veiled suggestions about my old family under canvassed cruiser. No I'm not going out of Pedigree, YNZ have set a specific goal for me to reach before I can, so fondling my dangly bits is out of the question at the moment. Actually 2 goals but only one is race related.

 

There are moves afoot to tweak the Class rules to allow for bigger *&^%'s and $#$@'s, which is good as they are a little overdue but as yet it's only in discussion. But that sounds like it would be more IRC negative than a positive.

 

Oh well, if ya don't ask, ya don't know. Now asked and now know, it's a don't bother going there situation.

[Guest]

I know this IRC conversation comes around very season, but shouldn't somebody go to KORC and ask for everybody' money back?

 

YNZ should publish a list of what boats should never apply for a cert!

 

IRC will never work across a range of designs (as in NZ) as it is a single number system.

IRC is too simple

It can't possibly compare dis-similar boats over a range of conditions.

 

It does work in Europe because they don't really try to use it to compare dissimilar boats.

They have good fleet numbers of similar boats e.g production cruising classes etc

Sure they do publish results across the divisions to get an overall winner e.g comparing 100'rs and Volvo 70s with shitters but people gracefully take the results with a grain of salt.

 

Similarly the Aussie's use IRC...

They have reasonable size divisions of like boats.

The results in those divisions work reasonably well.

But they keep the media and sponsors happy and provide a lotto like prize across the divisions for the overall win.

 

In NZ we generally have had a penchant for boats that go fast and that are hardly comfortable cruiser racers.

The IRC rule does not like light displacement boats

For a short period canters got away with it, but Mike and co. caught up with them and the 'black box' feature of the rule has dealt to them.

Similarly with a lot of the new 'one off' designs do well for the first year then their 'hull factor' mysteriously gets adjusted for the next year and they get buried in the pack.

 

In NZ we have beat ourselves up trying to race 1020s and the like against boats like Wired. What a joke.

YNZ really should give people their money back!

Basically any result depends on the type of course and the weather.

 

A handful of people have chosen boats that work

In NZ the 1020 obviously rates ok.

If you took it to Aussie how would it stack up? Maybe not so well. But there is plenty of gas in the tank. E.g. the IRC rule doesn't penalise 3DL sails.

Georgia One is another boat that rates well and is competitive in Aussie, but ask them how much thought that went into that design / rebuild - heaps. Again the base boat suits the rule.

 

It will be interesting to see how Ray Haslars new boat goes.

He will have put a lot of thought into it.

Hopefully Mike and co don't dick him with the 'hull factor'

But is that why he went for a European designer?

 

For the majority of kiwis they are best to stick with general handicap...it does a better job!

[Guest]

Airship had an IRC certain about 3 years ago.

 

Not sure it's about slowing your boat down. Rather it is about being able to sail the boat to it's rating. So optimizing is about making changes that give you marginally more performance than penalty in the conditions you normally sail in

 

Which is what I don't like about it as a system. At least in a country like New Zealand where we experience a wide range of conditions. If I had a boat in Newport RI for example, I might think about optimising for the expected conditions. The problem is 'optimising for the expected conditions' pretty much means deoptimising for the not expected conditions. Which is (at least to me) the same as slowing your boat down.

0

If you have a boat in a place where conditions range from 2 knots to 45, flat water to big swells, and racing can involve long beats, long reaches and long runs, then what you need is broad based sail wardrobe (amongst other things) to make your boat go well, consistently.

 

But if you rate said sail wardrobe, prod, spinnaker pole, multiple jib tracks, square top main, pin top main, etc. etc. under IRC you carry all mananer of penalties. Then some other boat that hasn't done all of that and is optimised for a narrower range of conditions comes out and kicks your butt (if they sail well and you sail well) when those conditions dial up.

 

It bugs me that IRC has things like a limit of 3 downwind sails - a modern high performance retractable rotating prod gennaker only boat is going to want a selection of reaching and running gennakers... no group of 3 is going to cut it. So, if said boat gets a SINGLE IRC certificate they have to take a punt on the conditions and rate for one set of conditions. That slows them down in other conditions. Optimising a boat in a place where you get a wide range of conditions, is the same thing as slowing your boat down.

 

Or, they can get multiple IRC certificates (i.e. they can bleed extra money).

[Deep Purple 512]

..... phrf

[Deep Purple 512]

.... general handicap

.... one design racing

.... multihulls

.... launch sales

.... golf club manufacturers

 

All of which would suffer if IRC wasn't what it is

[Kestrahl 6]

I didn't think the Shaw 650 rating was to bad at 1.0690 for pornstar in thailand.. If the race was all reaching and downwind it would hose all the other boats with a similar rating

[Kestrahl 6]

IRC also likes high freeboard and overhangs

[TimB 7]

You guys are nuts going on like this. No handicapping system is ever going work over the range and types of boats we sail in NZ. As someone said IRC works well in Ausie and here in WA there are a reasonably large number of boats sailing under both YAH (local club type of PHRF) and IRC at the same time, two races in one as it were. That spreads the prizes out nicley as it is rare for a boat to win both. I have sailed on a boat that was designed by Runnells to the IRC rule. But I suspect because of the secret nature of the rule, the designer just made a series of guesses. In fact compared to the new Blakewell-White General Lee and the previous iteration, Alfresco, it is a bit of an overweight dog. A 40ft'er beaten by 37-38 ft'ers. However we did see 20.7 knots one time while under single reefed main and No 3, down wind ~35kn.....

[Guest]

Knot Me.

Do you get paid to instigate this type of topic.

Opps, I now see what you mean.

S*it, I usually have to think up/make up something controversial, this time I just stumbled in by accident

[Gappy 9]

Ha you think IRC is that stupid we just got an IRC rating for the Karma she rates in at 1.449 thats bloody high the Limit which is an RP63 rates at 1.490 try and tell us they will only just beat us good on you.

 

Rob just pissed him self when he got the cert as he had an owner looking at a 9m and wanted to know what it rated on IRC so he got the karma done.

 

What a joke.

[Fish 0]

Ha you think IRC is that stupid we just got an IRC rating for the Karma she rates in at 1.449 thats bloody high the Limit which is an RP63 rates at 1.490 try and tell us they will only just beat us good on you.

 

Rob just pissed him self when he got the cert as he had an owner looking at a 9m and wanted to know what it rated on IRC so he got the karma done.

 

What a joke.

2.8% difference, Karma Police V Limit

[Mothership 6]

Ha you think IRC is that stupid we just got an IRC rating for the Karma she rates in at 1.449 thats bloody high the Limit which is an RP63 rates at 1.490 try and tell us they will only just beat us good on you.

 

Rob just pissed him self when he got the cert as he had an owner looking at a 9m and wanted to know what it rated on IRC so he got the karma done.

 

What a joke.

 

Ergo, the Karma would've sledded into Fiji about 3 hours after Limit last year?

[Fish 0]

I got IRC the last two seasons.

 

I learnt my racing in the UK so thought i was familiar with it, when I got home I quickly got sick of the bitching about Peformance Handicaps, I like a 'boat' handicap, i.e. a single number rating, measures crew perfomrance against relative boat performance etc. Can't stack gun crew for the big races etc.

 

I decided to put my money where my mouth is, support the only 'boat' rating available in NZ...

 

So far I've been dicked sensless by Farr 1020's and tried racing a turbo'ed 100 footer (Alfa Romeo) and a Richel Pugh 63 footer both with professional crew, in the same division in a 25 year old Kauri log.

 

I've paid $800 for that previliage ($400 a season compared with $70 for PHRF)

 

Will I do it again, tell YNZ their dreaming

[Guest]

PHRF is still the best option

[Gappy 9]

as much as I love the Karma I think the Limit my be a better ride for a fiji race

 

just can't figure it out Rob is querying them on it at the moment

[Guest]

DO report back when he gets a reply Gappy , I'll be fascinated.

[Guest]

I've paid $800 for that previliage ($400 a season compared with $70 for PHRF)

Sorry, $75 now. A 25% increase in 2 years.

 

The cost of dartboards must have sky-rocketed.

[Guest]

Since we are almost on topic, has PHRF improved any? They promised to make changes a while back, make things more transparent and the system a bit more sensitive, who's noticed a difference?