Gappy 9 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 yea its still crap also everytime we have a good down wind blast you can just about time the arrival of a new cert but as soon as we have a few sh*t up wind races etc it stays the same and we get smoked Link to post Share on other sites
Bogan 8 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 1020s are competitive under IRC in Aussie. Link to post Share on other sites
drbob 0 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 So far I've been dicked sensless by Farr 1020's and tried racing a turbo'ed 100 footer (Alfa Romeo) and a Richel Pugh 63 footer both with professional crew, in the same division in a 25 year old Kauri log. I've paid $800 for that previliage ($400 a season compared with $70 for PHRF) That's part of the problem in NZ - we don't have the fleet size to band the fleet into similar boats, or we think a national champ should select one boat, so we put all IRC boats in a single division. It's ludicrous to think IRC will cope with a 50' canter and a kauri log. That's not IRC's fault, it's something the OA should address. Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ha you think IRC is that stupid we just got an IRC rating for the Karma she rates in at 1.449 thats bloody high the Limit which is an RP63 rates at 1.490 try and tell us they will only just beat us good on you. Rob just pissed him self when he got the cert as he had an owner looking at a 9m and wanted to know what it rated on IRC so he got the karma done. What a joke. Oh, I don't know Gappy, a quick check against 09 and 10 CC shows you'd have been a little ahead of mid fleet in 09 and a smidgeon behind in 10, are you sure you're not being just the tinyest bit harsh on our English Brethrin? Knew the Cone of Silence came in in the mid 1.20s on IRC so I thought you'd at least make the mid 1.30s, have to say mid 1.40s is a good effort though. Not quite as good as Full Pelt, the 35fter which started life in the mid 1.70s but definitely a good effort. I have to ask of course If Rob is questioning whether it should be higher? I assume he's not got the urge to sell into the sharp end of IRC so the higher the number, the more impressive the boat looks to potential customers, surely? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 You guys are nuts going on like this. No handicapping system is ever going work over the range and types of boats we sail in NZ. As someone said IRC works well in Ausie and here in WA there are a reasonably large number of boats sailing under both YAH (local club type of PHRF) and IRC at the same time, two races in one as it were. That spreads the prizes out nicley as it is rare for a boat to win both. I have sailed on a boat that was designed by Runnells to the IRC rule. But I suspect because of the secret nature of the rule, the designer just made a series of guesses. In fact compared to the new Blakewell-White General Lee and the previous iteration, Alfresco, it is a bit of an overweight dog. A 40ft'er beaten by 37-38 ft'ers. However we did see 20.7 knots one time while under single reefed main and No 3, down wind ~35kn..... Tim, I guess you're talking about Jaffa. There's a boat optimised for the rule which doesn't quite cut it. What's she like otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 When I was in WA the yachties there were dumbfounded that we were more interested in the smell of gun smoke than IRC. I think you have to appreciate the big dough going into IRC from a place where there's a fair bit of the folding stuff available. Link to post Share on other sites
Kestrahl 6 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 So far I've been dicked sensless by Farr 1020's and tried racing a turbo'ed 100 footer (Alfa Romeo) and a Richel Pugh 63 footer both with professional crew, in the same division in a 25 year old Kauri log. I've paid $800 for that previliage ($400 a season compared with $70 for PHRF) That's part of the problem in NZ - we don't have the fleet size to band the fleet into similar boats, or we think a national champ should select one boat, so we put all IRC boats in a single division. It's ludicrous to think IRC will cope with a 50' canter and a kauri log. That's not IRC's fault, it's something the OA should address. If you think NZ is bad in that respect, When we did TOTG regatta in Thailand a couple of years ago we were racing Pornstar the Shaw 6.5 in IRC1 which included boats like a X-51 and even a 80fter.. Made the start a bit interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Old shitters What old shitters rate well on IRC? 1020?! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Ha you think IRC is that stupid we just got an IRC rating for the Karma she rates in at 1.449 thats bloody high the Limit which is an RP63 rates at 1.490 try and tell us they will only just beat us good on you. Rob just pissed him self when he got the cert as he had an owner looking at a 9m and wanted to know what it rated on IRC so he got the karma done. What a joke. 2.8% difference, Karma Police V Limit FFS......Just shows that they are not actually look at what they are rating. Did you include a v8 upwind iron sail in your application? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I've paid $800 for that previliage ($400 a season compared with $70 for PHRF) Sorry, $75 now. A 25% increase in 2 years. The cost of dartboards must have sky-rocketed. I've just got Smokey it's first PHRF....a not tooooo unrealistic .675 Which is the same as 1/4 pint for offshore.....and we give them time on the other two. Crak-a-Jak's new cert might be interesting.....given Edwin's cleaned up about the place last year! Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have to ask of course If Rob is questioning whether it should be higher? I assume he's not got the urge to sell into the sharp end of IRC so the higher the number, the more impressive the boat looks to potential customers, surely? MarkM's on to it - "rates atrociously on IRC", meaning "you can look forward to some farkin exciting rides", should become the new marketing slogan for Kiwi owners at least. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 yea its still crap also everytime we have a good down wind blast you can just about time the arrival of a new cert but as soon as we have a few sh*t up wind races etc it stays the same and we get smoked Gappy. Are you talking about IRC or PHRF Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Since we are almost on topic, has PHRF improved any? They promised to make changes a while back, make things more transparent and the system a bit more sensitive, who's noticed a difference? Yeap, about as sensitive as a gang member with a bad attitude on P, E, Z, O, H and most likely a few STD's as well. No Squid, it's only a cosmetic change, nothing structural. Link to post Share on other sites
muttley 0 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 wow, great thread. IRC is not the perfect rule but what is, for a start it is a one number rule so is always going to favor all round boats over a series rather than one angle wonders or boats deemed too far outside the norm. There are plenty of boats that are good fast boats that dont win IRC regattas but do win races on IRC when they have their conditions. Look at Brett Bakewell-Whites 36' design Alfresco and General Lee, this design was designed for the swan river club racing in perth which is just general handicap but the the decision was made to not add anything outrageous under IRC. These boats are fast , simple and FUN to sail. Karma would likely beat them around a habour course is a lot of conditions the BW isthe far more simple design making it a easier boat to get the most from I would think. AND GUESS WHAT THEY WIN PLENTY OF RACES UNDER IRC. One serious problem under IRC is the displacment of the boats to be prefect W/L boats. The best boats on these courses are in general the heavier ones. At the commodores cup in the UK the 36's weigh 5,000 KG, 43's, 6500kg and onwards the bigger the boat the lighter is can be for length which seems backwards and gives you boats that just are not great fun reaching and running. The NZ fleet is in general fairly light weight by world standards and we like going fast, You can have a light boat and win some IRC races what you can't have is a a light boat with crazy sail areas, lots of spreaders, complicated rigs etc. Looks at some of the people that hate IRC here they sail around with spinnakers that are so big in under 10 knots the drag in the water. IRC favours moderation and common sense to be a great IRC boat to fit with the world standard not look my spinnaker is 1mtr wider than my boat is long! No one forces anyone to have an IRC cert but in the sailing world outside of NZ it is still the most popular (Measurement) rule today, It has to be better than the chook raffle called PHRF Link to post Share on other sites
muttley 0 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 gl not too slow downwind gl .pdf Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 No one forces anyone to have an IRC cert but in the sailing world outside of NZ it is still the most popular (Measurement) rule today, It has to be better than the chook raffle called PHRF How many kiwis are interested in the sailing world outside NZ Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 There's a sailing world outside New Zealand Link to post Share on other sites
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