Quarter Pint 0 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Dont know where to post this so here is good! I have heard by several now that dynex is suitable versus wire for lifelines? I have the current blue safety book and dont see it, but I noticed orbit did have dynex lifelines before last Coastal and that would be a far too amateur mistake so those guys to make. Is there an amendment to the current rules, where do find it, Jono? Anyone? I'll be quick to change, wire in the back on the 727 is wearing me out as I get old! Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 73 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 There is a page in the YNZ site where they have some amendments. http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/CMSContent ... a4fbd5981e The lifeline bit is in the Sept 2010 amendment Link to post Share on other sites
Quarter Pint 0 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Champion..allow me to buy you a rum at some stage.... Best introduce yourself! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 ...what do you guys call "life lines" ? are you talking about the wire between staunchions ? If it is, I would like as many of you guys as possible to measure the highest point between deck and that top wire and report...... Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 ...what the hell..Im bored..(living on board and not being able to sail due to health reasons makes a man a little lose lipped)... ....try this...chose a wire, or rail , at about your boats top "safty wire"....Now..about six solid steps at speed towards this wire ...and then stop yourself...BUT...you MUST stop yourself only when you reach 300mm of the staunchions. Becarefull..If your feet plant...You will break your legs.(leg) If your feet slip..you will be straight over board. Sorry this is not a joke, or a crew funny. The bulk of an average body mass is simply way higher than an average "safety line" will contain. It is in fact a tripping hazard. SO..why are they at that height ?...Simple...they look like crap if they are lower. Dont believe me ?....you will find that staunchion height is related to free board. Have a look at your sleek go fasts.... Maybe interfere with racing?....cant handle the sheets intime... Maybe a feeling of security ? Maybee.....have a good look at your jack lines....and keep your harness lines ON and short.... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Dont know where to post this so here is good! I have heard by several now that dynex is suitable versus wire for lifelines? You can use a dyneema product, Dynex being one of many, but it has to be overbraied or 'covered'. You probably have the same stuff as a halyard even if it's bigger than required for line lines. The cover is a good idea as it'll cause less human damage then the more course single briad. I'm going that way and have a dyneema over dyneema to fit when the time comes. I must say it is rather sexy. The dyneema cover makes it a tad stronger and slippery as hell so less likely to remove more of my skin. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Make sure you fully read the regs and fine print in the amendment. While Orbit had Dyneema life lines they weren't actually legal. Their ones weren't sheathed as per the requirement in the regs. In addition they were showing signs of wear - abrasion by the time Easter came around - 6 months old. To be fair if they had a decent sheathing on them they may not have had the wear on them. So be prepared to do maintenance on them / programmed replacement more than your wire ones. I actually discussed the matter both with YNZ and the Orbit skipper when I saw them. As the boat had already been sold to Australia by then it wasn't a biggie in the scheme of things. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 SO..why are they at that height? Because they are designed mainly (but not exclusively) to be effective when people are sitting or kneeling on the deck? Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 ...what do you guys call "life lines" ? are you talking about the wire between staunchions ?If it is, I would like as many of you guys as possible to measure the highest point between deck and that top wire and report...... Most yachts follow the Yachting NZ Safety Rules 17.24 (K) (a)e.g. For keel yachts over 8.53m (28ft) overall Taut double lifelines, with upper lifeline of wire at a height of not less than 60cm (2ft) above the working deck, to be permanently supported at intervals of not more than 2.15m (7ft). So this applies to most of us, with some stanchions being flat with the top wire immediately below that and other stanchions with pointed or rounded tops slightly higher than the wire, but generally all stanchions will be less than 65cm tall. See free download for all details at: http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Large%20Files/YNZ_Safety_Regulations_of_Sailing_09-12.pdf + see amendments. Sorry to hear about your health restricting your sailing after all the building. I trust others are taking you out. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Make sure you fully read the regs and fine print in the amendment.While Orbit had Dyneema life lines they weren't actually legal. Their ones weren't sheathed as per the requirement in the regs. In addition they were showing signs of wear - abrasion by the time Easter came around - 6 months old. To be fair if they had a decent sheathing on them they may not have had the wear on them. So be prepared to do maintenance on them / programmed replacement more than your wire ones. I actually discussed the matter both with YNZ and the Orbit skipper when I saw them. As the boat had already been sold to Australia by then it wasn't a biggie in the scheme of things. I thought carbon staunchions were not legal as well? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 In addition they were showing signs of wear - abrasion by the time Easter came around - 6 months old. To be fair if they had a decent sheathing on them they may not have had the wear on them. Smart dude this Jono, the cover will make them last longer and help with the chafe protection. SO WILL a bit of fine emery paper combined with fingers running around the edge of the stanchion holes to suss for sharp bits before they are fitted. So be prepared to do maintenance on them / programmed replacement more than your wire ones. Again correct. DO KNOT assume these will last as long as many hold onto their wire ones. They may but they probably won't. Link to post Share on other sites
Quarter Pint 0 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Once again, thanks to all in-putters! Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 ...I have learnt a lot. "life lines" are very low flexible wires (or similar). They are not intended to stop people going over board. (Unless they are in a sitting or crawling position). They are not intended to give a solid grip..ie they are by nature, very flexible...held only by single poles...which may have a degree of strength, but by virtue will flex. Added to that the fact that there is no joining strength between staunchions...(that is the "life lines" run through the staunchions,,,as opposed to being attached to each one...the movement of the "life line" could be in the order of many centermeteres for each movement of the boat..(both athwart and pitch and roll). Further...the thickness of the "life lines" is such that under any normal circumstances , reasonable grip is nearly impossible. If indeed a degree of cold reduced that ability to grip, the "life line" would be of such a small size as to make it impossible to grip with any reasonable saftey. (I have seen the results, and have been told..."Yeah..hit a wave and I got caught on the cheese grater wire"...) What a way to treat a crew. Its purpose , it seems is only to give rail fodder a some what dubious feeling of saftey. Perhaps at the expense of their own well being. After all, in this day and age...if you know you are going to have human balast...light weight, solid (carbon fibre?) restraints would be a more humane and safer way to go. anough with the duff....expensive charter (non racing) boats still have "saftey lines" that would put a wrong foot over board...let alone a double scotch sunday and a half........ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Plus these days the whole race crew hang on one silly wire. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I thought carbon staunchions were not legal as well? They aren't... Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 that was the point I was trying to make, it was in regards to Orbit as it had carbon ones that a crew member leant on and broke, don't know how they got past the inspection? Link to post Share on other sites
ballystick 73 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Maybe it was because they were in another orbit to the rest of us!!??? Link to post Share on other sites
col j 0 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 we were parked near them after the tauranga race and raised the point to get not much more than a mumble in reply Link to post Share on other sites
Bogan 8 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 black painted fibre glass? Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Alot of the TPs used EGlass Stantions that were black resin so could well have been the same? A crowd in Birkenhead used to make them and i believe they are legal? Link to post Share on other sites
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