Help me buy a boat.

[oliver 0]

I'm looking at a windfall of money, inherited from my Grandad who was one of the key influences in getting me into boats and boating - he had an old fishing boat in Lyttleton that we played about on as kids.

 

Rather than put it all into mortgage, house maintainence or other boring stuff I want to buy a boat to sail with my kids, day sailing in Wellington harbour, maybe overnighting camping style from time to time. Budget up to 8K or so including whatever I need to buy/replace to get sailing. I'd like a boat that's fun to sail for a relatively inexperienced yachtie, that three kids and I can handle, and that's basically ready to go or can be made ready without spending huge time or money. What do you recommend?

 

I'm thinking of a smallish trailer sailer. I've never sailed them, having only been on dinghys or 40ish foot keelers. I like the idea of a Noelex 22, they look good value for money on Trademe but there aren't any decent ones in the lower North Island. Is it too risky to buy a boat at a distance and have it shipped by a car transporter? Anyone in the Blenheim area want to visit one that's there? All advice, pointers to boats to look at, suggestions etc will be very welcome, I've never bought a boat before.

[Guest]

Hi, I recently went through a similar exercise looking for a trailer sailer, and ended up settling with a well priced Noelex 22 off trade me that needed a little bit of work (hairline cracks through deck paint etc). I'm loving the boat, and glad I hung out waiting for a N22 rather then getting another design!

 

Having said that depending on the size of your family and how much your going to be carrying a more spacious Catalina might be worth looking into as well, as when my partner and I pack up for a few days pottering around all our (her) gear fills up most the space in the N22..

[Atom Ant 0]

If it's a Catalina you're after, and I agree, they stack up pretty well, one of the Weiti club members has one for sale. See the link below. It's the second ad on the page.

 

http://www.weiti.co.nz/Brokerage.htm

[oliver 0]

Looks nice AA, and good value too. Might be a bit much for my tired old van to pull though - just judging by the double trailer - and it's a fair distance away. There are a lot of boats available at the ends of the country where I can't easily go to see them, and only a few around here in Wellington.

 

If I bought a boat with a tired set of sails, roughly how much would I need in the budget for a new main and jib for a 22-25 foot boat? 2K or more?

[Guest]

Always felt safer with a lump of lead under me get a small Keeler, Variant etc etc.

Heaps easier when you want to go out for a hour or two just row out and your away.

[Farrari 4]

Always felt safer with a lump of lead under me get a small Keeler, Variant etc etc.

Heaps easier when you want to go out for a hour or two just row out and your away.

 

Yep, I'd agree with that. We started off with a 25ft trailer sailor but soon went to a small keeler. The difference in stability is huge plus you get the added bonus of more cabin room. While you normally have slightly high ongoing maintenance at least you are not spending money on maintaining a trailer.

 

You can pick up a variant or a harmonic for a good price these days and it would be 4 x the boat for money vs. an equivalent trailer sailor.

[wheels 543]

This is a great boat with good inventory and spruce up.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 461245.htm

[Steve Pope 243]

Good call Alan, that is a lot of boat for 5.5K, if its got a clean hull (no pox) you would have to go a long way to better it.

Of course with a keeler you have mooring costs, anti fouling etc.

[wheels 543]

Of course with a keeler you have mooring costs, anti fouling etc.

True. Although with a trailer sailer, you have Trailer WOF and Rego and upkeep and the real biggy that many are finding now is the vehicle to tow it. There are not many Vehicles that can legally tow a Trailer sailer these days. Many people towing anything these days have no idea they are breaking the law. Not that Police are very active at checking that kind of thing. But if you ever have an accident, they often throw the book at you.

[rigger 47]

Wheels is the limit 4.5tonne for vehicle and trailer(with boat) before you need an HT licence

[wheels 543]

Yes 4500Kg. It used to be 3500Kg, but was raised.

But you also have to be careful of what the Towing Vehicle is capable of legally towing and the Gross Laden weight of the Trailer in regards to the type of bracking required.

[wheels 543]

I will excpand on my statement above, because it can get easy to misunderstand.

The LTSA suggest the towing limits stated by the Vehicle manufacturer be taken into account. However, there is no "law" as such that limit a vehicle to that weight only. The actual law states that you must be able to stop the combined Vehicle in a distance of 7m from a speed of 30Km/h. Any Trailer with a Gros Laden Weight of 2000Kg or greater must be braked. But LTSA suggest the weight should never be any more than 3/4 of the Gross weight of the Towing vehicle. Now, as long as you can stop and as long as you are not over the weight, you could be considered within the law, even if you are over the LTSA reccomendations. However, the tricky part comes in when it all goes wrong. Firstly, Insurance companies have been known to use such info as a loophole. Secondly, Police have been known to use such info as a reason to bash the driver around the ears with the book. I have a Cousin that has gone through such treatment. He has towed a trailer sailer for many years with no issues and then one day he had an accident and the court said, well you were obviously in the wrong because you were over the specified manufacturers towing weights. Maybe witha better lawyer and more money, he could have had a different result, but...

Oh and another one to watch for. Some tow bars have weight specificatins also. They may say a max towing weight braked and unbraked that is outside of the Vehicles tow weight. The tow bar can also sometimes have a maximum downward load weight. Which is a bit stupid sometimes, because the usual rule of thumb is 10% of the load weight being forward of the axle so as it is tow hitch heavey. 10% of 2000Kg is 200Kg and most tow bars are only rated for 60Kg or perhaps slightly higher.

[oliver 0]

Hmmm. Now you worry me. Mr Toyota didn't really intend my old van to tow heavy loads. It would move a smaller trailer sailer OK, and it's not far to the marina from my house, but it might not be totally legal...

 

I was really thinking of trailer sailers to avoid the mooring and antifouling cost of small keelers, not because I intend to tow it long distances to sail in other places. I might have to look further into what it costs to moor a boat locally. Any Wellingtonians with a small moored boat around? I know the pile moorings in Seaview are 1200/year. How do you get a mooring in Lowry Bay, for example?

[grant 40]

How do you get a mooring in Lowry Bay, for example?

 

you own the mooring and you get a consent (10yr life and application fee of $506) from the Regional council.

 

Cost of the mooring depends on size of boat, so not too dramatic for what you are looking at, if you can get an existing mooring that can be a good way to go. None for sale ion lowry bay that I can think of at the moment.

 

you also need to get it inspected at least annually

 

if you want any more info ring me monday or tues 830 4162 I'm away for a bit after that but you can call that number and talk to John

[wheels 543]

Sorry to confuse the issue, but....if you have already been introduced to sailing, then I really can not see your boundaries remaining just within Welly harbour. At some point I see you wanting to head across to the sounds and maybe Able Tas. Well you should if you haven't considered that already. It is stunning and just so much to explore. So think about the layout a little more. You may want something a little more like a "caravan" than a day sailing pocket rocket. Problem is, the budgets tend to go up also. Now in saying that, my Wellywood Cousin has a trailer sailer and has taken his family to Able tas every summer and they make it work. Family is now older and oldest boy is now a very keen sailor.

[oliver 0]

I absolutely intend to sail in the Sounds and Able Tasman. My dad has a 28 foot cruising boat in Nelson, bought recently after a while with no boats, so we can do some family cruising with him.

 

It would be nice though to have a boat that could cross the strait, as Wellington harbour is really small enough to totally explore in a big dinghy. As you say it ups the budget a bit and I want to buy something that I can afford to maintain to a good standard. I have watched Dad's struggles with maintaining big old boats on a limited income!

 

I will think further on 25ish foot keelers - again, there don't seem to be many for sale in Wellington, compared to further north, and buying at a distance seems difficult.

[splashprincess 17]

I would suggest sticking with a trailor sailor to start with, and a Noelex 22 is a great option. The maintenance is minimal compared to a small keeler.

[Guest]

And you can take trailer sailers across the strait... last summer we were on a mooring in Double Cove and a couple of guys in a Hartley 20 came and rafted up with us. They were from Taupo and had driven down to Mana, put the boat in there and sailed across the previous day to Endeavour Inlet and then down to Double Cove earlier in the day. They were set like Jello. You just have to pick your conditions.

 

We did a crossing in convoy last year coming back from the Sounds in mid January. As well as us on a Ross 930, a Ross 830, a Stratus 727 and a Raven 26 all made the crossing comfortably.

 

The Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club Sailing Academy and/or Cruising Committee organise Cruising Seminars where people share tips on planning Cook Strait crossings, including (but not limited to) planning the tides for East to West and West to East crossings, weather forecasts and websites, radio requirements etc. They're really valuable, and I know a number of people new to Cook Strait crossings who have commented that they have felt much more confident and much less daunted by the prospect after attending.

[B00B00 310]

I have crossed the strait twice in a Hartley 16. I probably wouldn't do it again....

We launched from Mana and did a 2 week cruise of the sounds and back. Just before I moved up to Auckland.

[Farrari 4]

Yep, you could cross it in an Optimist if you really wanted. Being in a trailer sailor doesn't mean you can't go far; you just need to be a bit more conservative with your weather planning.

 

All I was saying is that dollar for dollar you will get more boat with a keeler. The down side is the maintenance and mooring costs. Personally I feel safer in a keeler knowing that if I get knocked down that the yacht is going to come back up again. If it was just me and my mates on board perhaps I would be less concerned but with my family on board I feel more comfortable in a keeler.

 

Stating the obvious but when buying a trailer sailor you are also buying the trailer. Most cars and vans these days are legally only able to tow up to 500-600Kg unbreaked. Old trailers need maintenance and if you need to fit breaking to an existing trailer it can eat up your budget.