Beserk 2?

[Fogg 427]

Again, I may be proved wrong and I'm not expert on Antarctica, but I reckon the sheer remoteness and inaccessibility of the place means that even if they want to, very few people will ever be able to reach the place.

 

Which surely means it will never be as threatened by visitors as more accessible parts of the planet, like Mt Everest for example.

[wheels 543]

At worst all this indivdual will do is create less pollution than a day's burning of fossil fuels by a Starlifter, kill less people than the Yanks CO2 emmisions kill on the planet in 5 minutes, and cost less to rescue than the poorly skilled, advised, and equiped sailors that leave our shores on a regular basis.

Crafty, you have your nose out of joint with Pete's comments. If you want to throw the muck back again, then it achieves nothing.

You have to understand that the Antarctic is a unique and very special place. It is prestine, but what is more is that any contamination down there does not go away like it will with time in any other part of the world. Just as an example, there is a Dead Seal in one of the dry valleys, that is frozen solid. It looks like it crawled there just a day ago and died. It is thought to be over 2000yrs old. The countries that are down there are very very particular about keeping the place perfectly clean and keep Human impact to as small an imprint as possible.

Personally, I don't think anyone should be stopped from going down there and if theyu want to kill themselves doing it, then that is their problem. But I do think anyone going there should have to meet certain minimum requirements, so as the place remains protected.

Pete reacted in the way he did, because he has spent considerable time down there and he knows full well the efforts they put into keeping the place clean and protected.

[Guest]

Don't be silly AC . According to Pwederell he is going to pollute the whole South pole, kill hs crew and others, compromise world travel, and cost more than the NZ welfare system to rescue

 

All this from a 40' boat!

He said nothing of the sort, stop being silly.

 

At worst all this indivdual will do is create less pollution than a day's burning of fossil fuels by a Starlifter, kill less people than the Yanks CO2 emmisions kill on the planet in 5 minutes, and cost less to rescue than the poorly skilled, advised, and equiped sailors that leave our shores on a regular basis. (IE that tri that left Nelson for Aussie despite being advised he would be mad to take that trip... to name but one.)

Cool. I can now kill someone and my defence could be "I'm Sorry Mr Right Dishonourable Judge Crafty but that one dude I killed is irrelevant. Pol Pot, Hitler and G W Bush have killed millions, what's one tiny lifeless body more?". Or I'll claim Maori heritage. It was a 7yo I ran over with my car, and I was only doing 30kph at the time.

 

And if he does stuff up then he should feel the full force of every law!... and the law makers should not change the law for one persons mistake and ruin it for the rest. Just deal to the person concerned.

That damn Grinna dude beat me to it

[Guest Crafty 1]

At worst all this indivdual will do is create less pollution than a day's burning of fossil fuels by a Starlifter, kill less people than the Yanks CO2 emmisions kill on the planet in 5 minutes, and cost less to rescue than the poorly skilled, advised, and equiped sailors that leave our shores on a regular basis.

Crafty, you have your nose out of joint with Pete's comments. If you want to throw the muck back again, then it achieves nothing.

 

Not true wheels. i too have spent time down their with the oil industry and the NZ Police.

 

Peter has his views and i have mine. He can challenge me and vice versa. thats called a debate.

 

I just think peter is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Compared to some of the things i have witnessed and been involved with these guys are a low risk. but the game may have changed since in the last 15 years.

 

 

KM, You had to may wines??? or suffering from negative alltitude sickness??... that last quote (in your last post) was mine not grinna's.

[Guest]

 

Not true wheels. i too have spent time down their with the oil industry and the NZ Police.

 

Peter has his views and i have mine. He can challenge me and vice versa. thats called a debate.

 

I'm calling a big fat horseshit on that. Unless you were illegally exploring for oil below 60 south and were arrested by the cops or you boondoggled to Erebus. Which is it??

Whatever skerrick of credibility you may have had has flown out the window sunshine.

Troll.

[wheels 543]

Carfty, many of us know Pete and he's a bloody good guy. I at least don't know you. Maybe others on here do. But making silly little snipy comments about him is only serving to alienate yourself.

[Guest Crafty 1]

 

Not true wheels. i too have spent time down their with the oil industry and the NZ Police.

 

Peter has his views and i have mine. He can challenge me and vice versa. thats called a debate.

 

I'm calling a big fat horseshit on that.

Troll.

Peter, you may well be qualified on that topic, i'm not a horse'y type guy, but your presumption is very poor.

 

You presume, (and i knew you would) because i say Oil industry, i mean drilling for oil!... Wrong!

 

I was down there with HSE people to set up fuel / oil storage tanks / setups, for a Major supplier, as an observor (it was my account) and to inspect the operation we had for records managment... among other things.

 

While there i remember many things but the most outstanding was watching the ice breakers come in and following behind them where killer whale who killed dozens of seals by leaping onto ice berg fragments (Broken by the ships) and flicking the seals of into the ocean and killing them. Within minutes the water was red behind the ships.

 

I also remember all the American plane componants that were buried in the snow and the many Black stained areas around the base... among other things i will not mention.

 

I also have 1 relative and very good mate who spent time down there with the NZ Airforce. And while our stories and perspective differ's there are some very good examples of "bad behaviour" by people and organizations who should know better.

 

But this was all many years ago and i accept that things may be alot better now.

 

So i too have memories that obviously differ from yours.

 

Peter, tell me about you experiences so i can understand your opinions better .

[Guest Crafty 1]

Back to topic...

 

7:30am Naional radio.

 

Interview with Skippers Press agent ?

 

The Skippers intention is to go to the Ice to determine what happened to his boat and crew.

 

The reason..

 

He believes (his words not mine)they were in a safe anchorage causing no harm but were moved on by either, and / or, NZ or American officials which compromised their saftey (moved from a safe anchorage to non safe waters) and as such the vessel got into difficulty, 3 people died, and pollution was created.

 

They also could not get any gear they had left behind. Which he intends to collect (clean up)

 

end

 

For me, it appears this guy is not the evil vagabond some make out and may be just trying to sort things out (for Him and the deceased peoples families?) find out what happened and maybe clean up?. He is risking his life and his money to do this so why would he go down there and pollute / risk lives again.

 

Maybe i am missing something but i think he deserves a chance to do this for these reasons.

 

 

Is that so bad?

[Guest]

Peter, you may well be qualified on that topic, i'm not a horse'y type guy, but your presumption is very poor.

 

You presume, (and i knew you would) because i say Oil industry, i mean drilling for oil!... Wrong!

 

I was down there with HSE people to set up fuel / oil storage tanks / setups, for a Major supplier, as an observor (it was my account) and to inspect the operation we had for records managment... among other things.

 

While there i remember many things but the most outstanding was watching the ice breakers come in and following behind them where killer whale who killed dozens of seals by leaping onto ice berg fragments (Broken by the ships) and flicking the seals of into the ocean and killing them. Within minutes the water was red behind the ships.

 

I also remember all the American plane componants that were buried in the snow and the many Black stained areas around the base... among other things i will not mention.

 

I also have 1 relative and very good mate who spent time down there with the NZ Airforce. And while our stories and perspective differ's there are some very good examples of "bad behaviour" by people and organizations who should know better.

 

But this was all many years ago and i accept that things may be alot better now.

 

So i too have memories that obviously differ from yours.

 

Peter, tell me about you experiences so i can understand your opinions better .

I presumed correctly, it was you who deliberately misled by your own admission. That and you previous conspiracy twittering about oil exploration there.

Finally you have admitted that you have no idea of current environmental practice down there.

My own experience is all within the last decade and includes commissioning waste water treatment systems, assistant station manager, engineering manager, supply and logistics, power generation etc. as well as a stint in the 90s commercial fishing.

[Guest]

Back to topic...

 

7:30am Naional radio.

 

Interview with Skippers Press agent ?

 

The Skippers intention is to go to the Ice to determine what happened to his boat and crew.

 

The reason..

 

He believes (his words not mine)they were in a safe anchorage causing no harm but were moved on by either, and / or, NZ or American officials which compromised their saftey (moved from a safe anchorage to non safe waters) and as such the vessel got into difficulty, 3 people died, and pollution was created.

They also could not get any gear they had left behind. Which he intends to collect (clean up)

 

end

 

For me, it appears this guy is not the evil vagabond some make out and may be just trying to sort things out (for Him and the deceased peoples families?) find out what happened and maybe clean up?. He is risking his life and his money to do this so why would he go down there and pollute / risk lives again.

 

Maybe i am missing something but i think he deserves a chance to do this for these reasons.

 

 

Is that so bad?

Ah, so the viking is a conspiracy nut too. The treaty participants have no legal (or physical) ability to move anybody on. A few years back Greenpeace tweaked the Americans' noses by setting up a protest camp right in the middle of McMurdo Station. All the USAP could do was deny them access to their bars etc.

[Guest Crafty 1]

Peter, you may well be qualified on that topic, i'm not a horse'y type guy, but your presumption is very poor.

 

You presume, (and i knew you would) because i say Oil industry, i mean drilling for oil!... Wrong!

 

I was down there with HSE people to set up fuel / oil storage tanks / setups, for a Major supplier, as an observor (it was my account) and to inspect the operation we had for records managment... among other things.

 

While there i remember many things but the most outstanding was watching the ice breakers come in and following behind them where killer whale who killed dozens of seals by leaping onto ice berg fragments (Broken by the ships) and flicking the seals of into the ocean and killing them. Within minutes the water was red behind the ships.

 

I also remember all the American plane componants that were buried in the snow and the many Black stained areas around the base... among other things i will not mention.

 

I also have 1 relative and very good mate who spent time down there with the NZ Airforce. And while our stories and perspective differ's there are some very good examples of "bad behaviour" by people and organizations who should know better.

 

But this was all many years ago and i accept that things may be alot better now.

 

So i too have memories that obviously differ from yours.

 

Peter, tell me about you experiences so i can understand your opinions better .

I presumed correctly, it was you who deliberately misled by your own admission. That and you previous conspiracy twittering about oil exploration there.

Finally you have admitted that you have no idea of current environmental practice down there.

My own experience is all within the last decade and includes commissioning waste water treatment systems, assistant station manager, engineering manager, supply and logistics, power generation etc. as well as a stint in the 90s commercial fishing.

 

yes ithe oil exploration was a bit of a red herring to evaluate the playing field and i aplologise for that.

 

we were exploring for oil / (fuel) albeit our own stuff that we sent down there.

 

I have also explained my timel lines and if things have been cleaned up and you have better knowledge of the recent activity down there then i accept that.

 

But based on mine, and other, experiences i still stand by the belief that many have done worse than this guy could ever do with 10x 40 footers.

 

I can only comment on my experiences and compare them to this guy's issues and pending visit. that is my perspective, but i respect your view and accept the changes that have occured.

 

and i still say let him go!

[southernman 73]

Well I know Pete pretty well and he knows what he is talking about.

 

I'm pretty sure that when I was down there briefly, things were pretty tidy and a lot of effort has gone into returning all waste and eliminating waste as much as possible.

 

I'm all for free adventure but face facts this guy has f**cked up and has caused pollution. The only plans and contingency he has are in his head and the big difference is that he does not have the money to sort out and pay for much more than a bloody yacht. He can't even organise leaving a country correctly and tells BS stories about some tattooed fella hiding in the anchor locker! FFS.

 

To my knowledge if you go down there you have to have full contingencies and insurance to pay for your mess if you make some. Of course the same should apply to the fishing industry that leaves ships down there to sink/burn. I guess the problem is who polices what happens down there ? If you give power to any one body/organisation, there goes the freedom of the place I guess?

[Guest Crafty 1]

...

 

To my knowledge if you go down there you have to have full contingencies and insurance to pay for your mess if you make some. Of course the same should apply to the fishing industry that leaves ships down there to sink/burn. I guess the problem is who polices what happens down there ? If you give power to any one body/organisation, there goes the freedom of the place I guess?

 

My point exactly. there have been polluters in the past and can we trust the "gaurdians" to ensure everything is clean from the legal occupiers there today... compared to this guy?

 

i don;t know and are wary.

[Guest]

The largest presence down there is obviously the USAP and NSF (National Science Foundation) is the government outfit responsible. They contract out the running of the base to civilian contractors. Raytheon recently came to the end of their contract and Lockheed Martin are the the new outfit. As a result, NSF, a government owned entity has oversight over the contractors and force environmental compliance as part of the contract at no additional cost to themselves. They are very anal about environmental impact and have recently entered into a joint (NZ initiated) venture with the NZAP for co generation using a new wind farm, amongst other things. The South Pole land traverse was established to reduce the fuel required for resupplying South Pole Station. Every reported fuel spill etc. is cleaned to within an inch of its life, fully investigated and documented. The NZAP is a little less anal about these things but everyone I have worked with takes their environmental responsibilities very seriously indeed.

We do not spill fuel beside the reverse osmosis intake for Scott Base, fail to report it and expect others to clean it up as some "free spirited Norwegian adventurers" have done.

[southernman 73]

The latest in the drama..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6396199/Wild-Viking-slams-NZ-again

 

just proves this guy is a complete user and looser. The feeling of guilt that he has must be huge for the loss of life of an ill prepared voyage.

[Guest Crafty 1]

I see gareth Morgan is on his way down there and has defended this guy's right to be down there as much as his. And also said "if he saw him he would not report him" (his position)

 

as he said... "If he needs a rescue he would do it, after all they meay need him if they need a rescue"

 

Different strokes for different Folks aye!

 

I'm with Morgan

[wheels 543]

How exactly is the guy going to try and Find a sunken yacht down there. It's thousands of feet deep.

What's more, I didn't realise he had entered NZ illegally. Why on Earth was he not arrested, deported back to where ever he came from and his boat confiscated.

[Steve Pope 243]

Don't believe everything you read Wheels. Your suggested treatment of him is a bit tough, Bit like Dotcom, prosecuted in the media by the powers that be using

( suspect? ) selected info. What IF the navy DID order Berserk out, egg could be? should be? on some quite high up faces.

[Guest]

The navy have no right to order him away unless he is engaged in illegal activity in a NZ protectorate and even then would not do so if it was going to endanger the vessel. Absolute conspiracy nonsense. The navy keep a record of every damn thing that happens onboard, especially communications, and you can bet your bottom dollar it would have come to light if this had actually happened. Watch out for that falling satellite.

[wheels 543]

Steve, if anyone arrives into NZ without permission, as in no Visa, they are held in Custody at the Airport and put on the next plane back to where they came from. Anyone who enters NZ by Sea, (unless due to an emergency) are also required to have a Visa. If this guy snuck into NZ intentionaly, he intentionaly broke the law and in my view anyone doing that should be put on a plane and sent back to the country they came from. OK, maybe in a watered down sense, at least kicked out of the country with his boat which is what happened. But who knows what activity someone is upto by sneeking into NZ ilegally. It could be drugs, smuggling, who knows. Imagine what would happen if he tried that and was caught in the US right now. He would probably get given a pari of bright orange overalls and and an all expenses paid Holiday to a not so lovely Bay.